Is it selfish of Tris to crave victory or is it brave?

Discuss the June 2014 book of the month Divergent by Veronica Roth. While only Divergent--the first book of the series--is the book of the month, feel free to use this subforum to discuss the rest of the series or to talk about the movies, but make sure not to post spoilers unless noted in the topic title.
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Re: Is it selfish of Tris to crave victory or is it brave?

Post by csimmons032 » 22 Apr 2017, 14:05

It could be a little bit of both. Considering the conditions that Tris lives in, she has to prove herself worthy of the faction, which would include beating her competitors. The fact that she works so hard to stay a part of the Dauntless faction makes her brave. Tris was never allowed to be selfish in her old faction, which probably made her want to think of herself more when she changed. I don't think the other people of Dauntless have a right to be jealous of her when they want the same things. It seems like if they want it just as much, they should work harder.
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Post by Naval Aulakh » 09 Jul 2017, 08:10

I think that it was a bit selfish but that is where is belonged.
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Post by Mallory Whitaker » 28 Jul 2017, 12:59

Craving victory means you're craving to be better than others or feel better about yourself. So yeah, I'd say that is selfish. I think everyone has the right to feel jealous, it's what you do with that jealousy that matters. They are all sixteen so I find it hard to hold them up to the same moral compass I would an adult. I think I would forgive them if I was Tris. I just wouldn't do anything to change it.

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Post by Yemurai » 08 Aug 2017, 14:33

I think it's bravery, she grew up in a faction that is timid and I think she was just trying to prove that she can be brave.

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Post by Helen_Combe » 29 Mar 2018, 14:50

No, it’s not selfish to crave victory, the punishment for failure in Dauntless is to be made factionless which is terrifying. I would do everything in my power to avoid it.
Their rule that a percentage must fail was silly anyway, if the intake that year was particularly good, some great people would be pointlessly thrown away.
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Post by Crazybud » 23 Apr 2018, 10:22

Success is always appealing, victory endorses success. Initiation was a challenge, it was a test of strength, will and patience. I see no selfishness in craving victory during the initiation. For a person in Abnegation, it might be considered selfish, but for a Dauntless it is necessary to crave victory. It actually determined how much she actually fit the title of 'Dauntless'.

Also, it is natural to be jealous of higher competitors in name of competition. But while turning the jealousy to hatred is when you need to draw the limit. If I was in her place, I definitely would have forgiven my fellow competitors, taking it in the right spirit.
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Post by sush_destiny » 14 Mar 2019, 10:44

In every competition, jealousy is a normal emotion, even if the ones you are competing against are your friends. It is not selfish to crave victory.

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Post by jahagen » 22 Mar 2019, 11:57

I don't really think it's either selfish or brave, necessarily. Wanting to be victorious just seems to be very human. And of course her friends will be jealous, but given the circumstances and the consequences of not doing well, I'd say they were forgivable.

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Post by dorebri2020 » 09 Jul 2019, 10:49

I do not believe it was whole-heartedly selfish of Tris to crave victory. The stakes were high and she had to fight to survive. Also, I do not think it was right for her friends to react so negatively, but I would still have to forgive them as Tris did. After initiation was done, it was only fair that the tension faded.
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Post by Kathleen Wolfe » 26 Jul 2019, 10:42

It is a human tendency to want to be the best at something. Some of the best inventors were mentored by it. But so is jealousy and envy so it is natural for them to feel that way since it is sometimes inescapable.

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Post by rumik » 01 Aug 2019, 07:54

Not selfish to crave victory at all in my opinion, it's just being competitive. Maybe a bit proud, but not selfish.

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Post by Atara Miles » 28 Sep 2019, 17:50

Can't it be both? Is it not the whole definition of selfish to want something for yourself, and brave to go about stating and acting out those desires? I understand Tris' friend's jealousy - they also want it for themselves and no matter who it is that's ranked above them, friend or otherwise, you can't help those feelings from keeping in? I would forgive them for it - if Tris is allowed to be selfish, they are allowed to be jealous.

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