Brave, and selfless, and smart, and kind, and honest...

Discuss the June 2014 book of the month Divergent by Veronica Roth. While only Divergent--the first book of the series--is the book of the month, feel free to use this subforum to discuss the rest of the series or to talk about the movies, but make sure not to post spoilers unless noted in the topic title.
User avatar
Site Admin
Posts: 3403
Joined: 31 Jul 2006, 23:00
2019 Reading Goal: 52
2019 Reading Goal Completion: 19
2018 Reading Goal: 52
2018 Reading Goal Completion: 7
2017 Reading Goal: 36
2017 Reading Goal Completion: 25
Favorite Author: Voltairine de Cleyre
Currently Reading: The Unbound Soul
Bookshelf Size: 288
Reviewer Page:
Reading Device: B00JG8GOWU
Publishing Contest Votes: 960
fav_author_id: 2660

Brave, and selfless, and smart, and kind, and honest...

Post by Scott »

The following discussion question was included in some copies of the June book of the month, Divergent by Veronica Roth.

Is Four’s desire to be “brave, and selfless, and smart, and kind, and honest” (p. 405) realistic in the society in which he lives? Think of examples of people in our own world who successfully bridge different cultures, perspectives, or ways of living.
"That virtue we appreciate is as much ours as another's. We see so much only as we possess." - Henry David Thoreau

"Non ignara mali miseris succurrere disco." Virgil, The Aeneid

Posts: 23
Joined: 15 May 2014, 21:15
Bookshelf Size: 0
Reviewer Page:
Latest Review: "Roadmap to the End of Days" by Daniel Friedmann

Post by Hola2Cora »

Four's desire to have all four of those character traits are not only realistic in his society, but also in ours. Nobody is born with perfect character traits. Good character is developed through trials and sufferings, just like what was portrayed in Divergent and in the rest of the books in the triology.
Today I think Charlize Theron and her work with her foundation to educate and fight AIDS in South Africa is encompassing of what Four is trying to achieve. Other than someone famous, people display those characteristics when they participate in Doctors without Borders and church mission groups that go to diseased people groups, and impoverished ones that have been discarded by their society, to provide health care, hope and love to them. Those people do it out of compassion for the weak and poor. Those people display brave acts of selflessness. When people find that helping others is worth it, that is when they become smart and kind about giving purpose to their actions. Anyone can achieve those character traits and put them into practice any time, just like Tris and Four learned to do in the triology.
Latest Review: "Roadmap to the End of Days" by Daniel Friedmann

Posts: 23
Joined: 16 Apr 2014, 20:22
Favorite Author: Robin Jones Gunn
Currently Reading: The Guardian by Nicholas Sparks
Bookshelf Size: 0
Reviewer Page:
fav_author_id: 5926

Post by toriborip »

Its not very practical where they live because they are forced to choose one... But honestly I think everyone should strive to be all of those things

Posts: 1100
Joined: 08 May 2014, 22:50
Currently Reading: Apollo's Raven
Bookshelf Size: 84
Reviewer Page:
Latest Review: "Letorian Descendants- Casey Blane Series (Book 1)" by Jodi Ann Fahey

Post by CrescentMoon »

In the society that Four lives in, people who have more than one of those traits are Divergent. The government is trying to round up all the divergents and kill them, so even though Four is all those things, displaying each of those traits publicly would be very dangerous. In our world, it would be admirable for a person to have all those traits, but in Four's world, it would not be realistic because the government is trying to stamp out all those people.
Latest Review: "Letorian Descendants- Casey Blane Series (Book 1)" by Jodi Ann Fahey

User avatar
Site Admin
Posts: 44766
Joined: 22 Oct 2013, 07:12
2019 Reading Goal: 100
2019 Reading Goal Completion: 92
2018 Reading Goal: 100
2018 Reading Goal Completion: 100
2017 Reading Goal: 100
2017 Reading Goal Completion: 100
Favorite Author: Agatha Christie
Currently Reading: Three Men in a Boat
Bookshelf Size: 1999
Reviewer Page:
Reading Device: B00I15SB16
fav_author_id: 2484

Post by gali »

I think that Four's desire to have those qualities is not realistic to the lifestyle of the dauntless faction, but it is an adorable ambition.
In the case of good books, the point is not to see how many of them you can get through, but rather how many can get through to you." (Mortimer J. Adler)

User avatar
Posts: 243
Joined: 28 Feb 2014, 02:10
Favorite Author: Jeff Melton
Favorite Book: Dark Destiny
Bookshelf Size: 0
Reviewer Page:

Post by LittleWilma »

Like most people on the planet, Four didn't fit into just one box and in regular society, that is not unrealistic. In his society, it was because they didn't want to mix the factions. When the society broke, those desires served him well.
"I like liquor — its taste and its effects — and that is just the reason why I never drink it."
-Stonewall Jackson

User avatar
Posts: 459
Joined: 17 Sep 2013, 15:38
2017 Reading Goal: 100
2017 Reading Goal Completion: 0
Currently Reading: White Cargo
Bookshelf Size: 1028
Reviewer Page:
Latest Review: "Justified Anger" by Jennifer Colne

Post by Paliden »

It's not very practical because of the whole Faction thing but I think it was a sign of how much they had devoloped that he wanted to be the best of all the factions. And it is what we should all strive for. He captured the heart of the experiment. If everyone would try to be all of those things, think how much better society would be.
Latest Review: "Justified Anger" by Jennifer Colne

User avatar
Posts: 1
Joined: 06 Jun 2014, 12:42
Bookshelf Size: 0

Post by gothgirl »

Four and Tris understands that they fits in most or all the fractions on their journey. Even though Tris had to choose between three different factions in the beginning.

Posts: 54
Joined: 03 Jun 2014, 19:49
Favorite Author: Nora Roberts
Favorite Book: And then there were none
Bookshelf Size: 0
Reviewer Page:
fav_author_id: 3258

Post by that_bek_girl »

I don't think that Four's desires were realistic because he couldn't have safely been all of those things in his society... Though I don't see anything wrong with wanting to be all of them. Thinking to an example in our world, how about MLK? He wanted to bridge the gap between cultures, extend and receive kindness with no retaliation of the years of wrong doing. He just wanted to bring the world together as one.
You must be the change you wish to see in the world.

User avatar
Posts: 281
Joined: 07 Jul 2013, 01:33
Bookshelf Size: 48
Reviewer Page:
Latest Review: The Silent Shadow by Pat S. Clarke

Post by GKCfan »

It's a recurring theme in fiction– a character strives to be good in a wicked world. That's why in most books there are just a few heroes rather than lots of them.

User avatar
Posts: 444
Joined: 18 Jan 2014, 23:04
Favorite Book: Til We Have Faces by C. S. Lewis
Bookshelf Size: 52
Reviewer Page:
Latest Review: "Adventures in space & fiction fantasy" by Robin G Howard

Post by H0LD0Nthere »

I hate to refer to C.S. Lewis all the time, but he has pointed out that to practice any one virtue, you need all the others. "If, being lazy, vain, and cowardly, I am still kind, it is only because someone else's welfare has not yet conflicted with my comfort, self-image, or safety."
Latest Review: "Adventures in space & fiction fantasy" by Robin G Howard

User avatar
Posts: 47
Joined: 19 May 2014, 19:58
2018 Reading Goal: 50
2018 Reading Goal Completion: 48
Favorite Author: Nicholas Sparks
Favorite Book: Too many to name
Currently Reading: The Bone Season
Bookshelf Size: 31
Reviewer Page:
Latest Review: American River: Tributaries by Mallory M. O'Connor
fav_author_id: 2460

Post by musiclover182013 »

In the society in which Four lives in, that mindset is not exactly wanted. Although, to want to be like that is a good thing in the end. It helps.

User avatar
Posts: 57
Joined: 23 Jun 2014, 16:35
Favorite Author: Ken Follett
Favorite Book: The Book Thief
Bookshelf Size: 9
Reviewer Page:
Latest Review: "Emmie of Indianapolis" by Kay Castaneda
fav_author_id: 3559

Post by Darling_Reads »

Four's desire to be "brave, and selfless, and smart, and kind, and honest" is both admirable and realistic. In the society in which Four lives I do not see it as being common to want to engulf all of those characteristics. Sometimes it is hard to be honest with people and kind at the same time. These are all positive traits that people in our society that are respected possess. People that are wonderful world leaders such as the Dalai Lama are brave, selfless, smart, kind and honest. Most people that possess all of these traits are those that are humble and truly care about others. They look to better society. These are characteristics that all can aspire to have.
Latest Review: "Emmie of Indianapolis" by Kay Castaneda

User avatar
Posts: 9
Joined: 26 Jun 2014, 23:21
Bookshelf Size: 0
Reviewer Page:

Post by rox_danyel »

In dauntless, Four could not show all of his character traits BC they did not allow it. When the factions were broken in the end, it ended up being a good thing for him. In our society it is great to have all of those traits and people are well respected because of it.

User avatar
Posts: 149
Joined: 21 May 2014, 12:36
Favorite Author: F. Scott Fitzgerald
Bookshelf Size: 45
Reviewer Page:
Latest Review: "December Rain" by A.L. Goulden
fav_author_id: 2471

Post by autumnmarie »

In his particular faction, no. But this kind of ambition is what breaks unfair government barriers and brings in a new era of free thinking.
"I declare after all there is no enjoyment like reading! How much sooner one tires of any thing than of a book!" -Jane Austen Pride & Prejudice
Latest Review: "December Rain" by A.L. Goulden

Post Reply

Return to “"Divergent" by Veronica Roth”