Is it selfish of Tris to crave victory or is it brave?

Discuss the June 2014 book of the month Divergent by Veronica Roth. While only Divergent--the first book of the series--is the book of the month, feel free to use this subforum to discuss the rest of the series or to talk about the movies, but make sure not to post spoilers unless noted in the topic title.
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athyvip
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Re: Is it selfish of Tris to crave victory or is it brave?

Post by athyvip » 30 Oct 2014, 18:20

It's selfish, but it's also human nature. If I were to offer you a million dollars or homelessness, would you be selfish for choosing the million dollars? No. It would be a completely natural choice. In the same way, Tris' desire to succeed was completely natural.

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Post by unicorny07 » 14 Nov 2014, 23:49

I would say Tris was both brave and selfish. She was very brave to leave her home and enter a world she barely knew, but it was also selfish to just get up and leave her family for herself. Tris's friends do have the right to be jealous because making it through Dauntless basically meant life or death. You either get through initiation and become Dauntless, or you become faction less and risk starving to death. Everyone has to try to do what's best in that situation, so I would forgive their jealousy. Their jealousy is totally understandable.

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Post by jordyn21 » 16 Nov 2014, 00:42

No, it is not selfish of her she is as brave as they come! Everyone in that situation sort of needs to be looking out for themselves first and foremost because if they fall behind then they are done. Her 'friends' actions were unforgivable in my opinion because they meant what they did and you can't just apologize for those kinds of actions. I would never trust them again.
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Post by Sweet_Lullaby » 24 Nov 2014, 14:36

I say its a little of both, it depends on which way you view things.
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Post by dememusicaddict » 04 Dec 2014, 21:32

It depends on your point of view... She was completly justified in my eyes, but in the eyes of the abnegation, I'm sure that there would be a different verdict.

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Post by buddyroo » 10 Dec 2014, 15:32

I think it is technically selfish, but it is human nature to crave victory. I don't think it was brave, I just think it was completely natural, and in this instance, necessary. I also think it is natural for her friends to be jealous. They are fighting for their lives, the sense of belonging. Yes, I also think it is good to forgive their reactions. How can you fault people for wanting to live.
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Post by deah319 » 11 Dec 2014, 00:07

I think it's brave of her to still go for it despite the fact that she's out of her comfort zone and her upbringing did nothing to prepare her for surviving the dauntless initiation. She is surrounded by people who are stronger and far more aggressive than her and yet she didn't cower.
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Post by Batesblogger » 11 Dec 2014, 00:16

I don't think she is selfish. I think a big part of her bravery is that she is selfless. Like when she stood there instead of Al. Her best moments in the entire series are when she is trying to save someone else, or protect someone else. She is a consummate hero, and martyr. She puts herself in danger constantly to save others, yet she wants to survive more than anything. I think Tris is a very unique and deep character.
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Post by Bookl0ver657 » 20 Jan 2015, 20:38

I think it is very brave of Tris to crave victory. She originally comes from a faction that is taught to be selfless. So, to crave victory would be completely against how she was brought up. In Dauntless, it is a fight for survival to remain in the faction. To remain in a faction and not be considered "factionless" is the ultimate goal. So, in my opinion, jealousy is a normal reaction for Tris's friends to feel. If I were Tris, I would be able to forgive them for their jealousy, but not for the way they handled their jealousy.

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Post by angelbeats1 » 04 Feb 2015, 00:43

Tris is just doing what everyone else is doing. So does that make them all selfish? I think that she's just being competitive, I mean she kind of has no choice.
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Post by csimmons032 » 13 Mar 2015, 17:46

I think it's a little bit of both. She's in a tough situation because victory for her means keeping her identity secret, and based on what she's going through I probably would have felt the same way. It was brave of her to even join Dauntless int he first place. As far as her friends reactions go, it is normal to be a little jealous if someone does better than you. However, if you get to the point where you are letting the jealousy interfere with your friendship, then that's where it can be wrong. I don't think anyone should let their friendships be destroyed over jealousy. If I were Tris, I would forgive them. Everybody makes mistakes, and where would we all be if nobody knows how to forgive?
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Post by Jesska6029 » 16 Mar 2015, 20:26

I think it is brave for Tris to even allow herself to crave victory. She is raised in a place that values selflessness, and she breaks out of that to make herself happy. She wants a victory and goes for it. She finally starts to become her own person and that is very, very brave.
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Post by gatorgirl_823 » 31 Mar 2015, 11:22

I think she's being competitive but also self-perserving. She wants to win to get accepted by the faction. Dauntless is all about being the best you can be, she understands and has those same values in herself.
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Post by steinhm » 02 Apr 2015, 05:05

I think it's a little bit of both. I get wanting victory being brave-- because who doesn't, but it's also a little bit selfish. Wanting yourself to do really well at something will always be a bit selfish. It would be more selfless to want victory for everyone or for people other than yourself.

However, I think I would forgive my friends for acting that way towards me because that's just how I am. Ultimately, I might have acted the same so it's only fair.
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Post by MissJane » 10 Apr 2015, 23:26

Obviously Tris wanted to succeed; it's human nature. I don't think it is selfish for her to want this. It is kind of brave for her to be the little girl from Abnegation that stood up and fought against all odds. Also, even though real friends would be happy for Tris at succeeding, I would forgive them for being upset; again, it's human nature to want the best for yourself.

-- 10 Apr 2015, 23:26 --

Obviously Tris wanted to succeed; it's human nature. I don't think it is selfish for her to want this. It is kind of brave for her to be the little girl from Abnegation that stood up and fought against all odds. Also, even though real friends would be happy for Tris at succeeding, I would forgive them for being upset; again, it's human nature to want the best for yourself.

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