Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged

[DennisK]

I just finished Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged. Now, I know she is a controversial author, but I am not out to pick a fight with anyone – I'm just curious. I read this book a few decades ago, and as I am much older, now, I wondered how I would interpret this book from the perspective that I have now. It was like reading a completely new book – an entirely new story. It is interesting how our view of life affects our interpretation of those things that we read.
I found it a difficult book to read clear thorough, as she would, at times, get stuck on one aspect of the story, like a love scene or someone's speech and she would rattle on, page after page after page on this one scene. Exhausting! What I found really interesting, was that this book was written back during the 40's, and how relevant her characters were to the posturing of today's politicians. This story is timeless.
What I got from reading Atlas Shrugged, wasn't so much an epiphany. as it was a confirmation and expansion to an idea about which I have been thinking. We have a concept that is fundamental to our morality. The greatest expression of love is the act of sacrificing ourselves for the betterment of someone or something else: The serviceman who gives his life for his country, Jesus dying on the cross for our sins, giving to the poor – the act of diminishing ourselves for the sake of someone else. Rand challenges this primes on which we base our moral lives. She treated the act of charity as an obscenity, and the act of commerce as a higher moral concept: I have something that you need and you have something that I need, so we trade – we share. We are both lifted up and no one is diminished. In this context, it seems more congruent to this life that we are born into. But what about those who have nothing with which to share? What would Rand say to that?

[Mountainbreeze23]

I read this book when I was fourteen and was completely blown away by it. I know now that it is false for so many reasons. No character in real life can be as one- dimensional as Kira and John Galt, nothing in life can be as clear as she suggests it is. I think this book can be dangerous because it gives one so many false ideas.

[DennisK]

Hello, Mountainbreeze23, Yes, that was one of the things that first came to my attention – the over-glorification of John Galt, D'Anconia, Dagny and Rearden. I dealt with these unrealistic characters by equating them with today's Superman, Spiderman and the members of the Justice League. While I read the book, I kept in mind that it was written back in the 40's. I remember some of the 40's and I can tell you, their (here comes a word:) zeitgeist was a lot different than ours is today. I read your review of My Living Will, and I think I can understand where you are coming from with how this can be dangerous to young impressionable people. I do agree with you in that life isn't as clean and simple as her story depicts. I think she makes a valid point, but that point isn't THE point – it isn't an answer to all our concerns – no story, that I can tell, does.
...so to my question put to you and anyone else reading this - who has read this book: Picture Ayn Rand coming across a person down on a sidewalk, begging for money. She squats down on her haunches and looks straight into the beggar's eyes: What do you think she will say? In her place, what would you say?

[iwaswondering04]

The above posts are thought provoking. I was thrilled with the book, even though I don't exactly agree. Was her point that giving charity is bad? That was my immediate take away. But what if wasn't? What if the point she was making was the mandatory taking of your money, stealing in other words, and redistributing without your discretion? What if she was protesting, not giving charity, but creating a system where charity was assured, thus destroying a person's drive to excel? I think that giving is noble. Communism is dangerous not so much because it assumes innate benevolence, that's just wishful thinking, but because the people no longer value independence and a strong work ethic. The people lose their dignity. Now, that may not be what she intended, but those are my thoughts on it.

[DennisK]

The above posts are thought provoking. I was thrilled with the book, even though I don't exactly agree. Was her point that giving charity is bad? That was my immediate take away. But what if wasn't? What if the point she was making was the mandatory taking of your money, stealing in other words, and redistributing without your discretion? What if she was protesting, not giving charity, but creating a system where charity was assured, thus destroying a person's drive to excel? I think that giving is noble. Communism is dangerous not so much because it assumes innate benevolence, that's just wishful thinking, but because the people no longer value independence and a strong work ethic. The people lose their dignity. Now, that may not be what she intended, but those are my thoughts on it.

We have different perspectives of the same story. I think your interpretation is more in line with what Ayn Rand must have been thinking when she wrote Atlas Shrugged. I understand that she immigrated to the U.S. from communist Russia, and with her came a deep hatred for that form of government. As an American, I am currently embroiled in a conflict between two social constructs: socialism, and capitalism. If you are dealing with these two issues, I can see where you are coming from while interpreting Ayn Rand’s story. I came at her story from a different direction: I was questioning why it so necessary for Jesus to be crucified. How was that suppose to save the rest of us from our own sins? I was questioning what I believe to be the very foundation of our moral values. Why is sacrifice the ultimate expression of love? I was rereading Ayn Rand because I was looking for answers. I don’t believe you or I read this kind of literature simply for confirmation of our own prejudices. I believe we are in the process of developing or expanding ideas. Ayn Rand’s literature has very deep roots and they expand in many different directions.

[iwaswondering04]

[quote=iwaswondering04 post_id=1923283 time=1652046989 user_id=3390

We have different perspectives of the same story. I think your interpretation is more in line with what Ayn Rand must have been thinking when she wrote Atlas Shrugged. I understand that she immigrated to the U.S. from communist Russia, and with her came a deep hatred for that form of government. As an American, I am currently embroiled in a conflict between two social constructs: socialism, and capitalism. If you are dealing with these two issues, I can see where you are coming from while interpreting Ayn Rand’s story. I came at her story from a different direction: I was questioning why it so necessary for Jesus to be crucified. How was that suppose to save the rest of us from our own sins? I was questioning what I believe to be the very foundation of our moral values. Why is sacrifice the ultimate expression of love? I was rereading Ayn Rand because I was looking for answers. I don’t believe you or I read this kind of literature simply for confirmation of our own prejudices. I believe we are in the process of developing or expanding ideas. Ayn Rand’s literature has very deep roots and they expand in many different directions.

Hi DennisK, I appreciated your response. It really got my wheels spinning, and I was hoping to continue the discussion.

I was raised in a Christian home, for starters, and have had many questions myself. I was wondering what exactly yours were?

I was also wondering what other books you have read in your search. I would be interested to know how you came to read Ayn Rand in search of answers. As an atheist, she seems like an interesting choice.

When I first read Atlas Shrugged, almost two years ago now, I had similar thoughts. From her view point, what room is there for a Savior? Frankly, none. And this is reflected in her story. There are serious flaws in the morality of her characters. The book left me theologicaly befuddled for a week or two. One of the books that I thought very helpful was Letter in the Scroll, by Chief Rabbi Sir Jonathan Sacks.

You asked why sacrifice is the ultimate expression of love. I am not sure of the why, only that it is. Take the image of Jesus dying on the cross and look at it like this: imagine a father, with tears flowing down his cheeks as he stands in front of the grave of his only son, who fell bravely in battle. Not everyone can be a soldier, therefore the soldier protects, saves in essence, the average person. The father is proud of his son, knowing that his life was sacrificed freely for whatever the cause was.

The characters in Atlas Shrugged made sacrifices, too. Look at Galt, who forewent the opportunity of becoming a billionaire because he knew there was something better to be gained. Every person who made it to Galt's Gulch sacrificed something.

[DennisK]

Hi, Iwaswondering04! It’s good to read your words – an opportunity to share our thoughts. Thanks for the recommendation: Letter in the Scroll, by Chief Rabbi Sir Jonathan Sacks. I ordered it in its Kindle format. My first introduction to Jewish history, other than the Bible, was by way of Michener’s The Source. I like historical novels – all of Lynn Austin’s books, Jerry Jenkins and a number of other Christian novelists. I need to know what it must have been like, back in those times. Why did they make the decisions that they made. I know it is all speculative, but I figure any insight is better than none at all.
Like you, I was born into a Christian family, but that family dissolved and my sisters and I were raised by a single mom. I remember when I was in my early teens - it came to me, like a 2 by 4 upside my head, that there was no God. It was like being tossed down a dark well with no bottom. My mother was in the laundry room, so I went to her and informed her that I was now an atheist. She stopped what she was doing, and she looked at me: “Are you sure there is no God?” At that point, I wasn’t sure about anything: “No?”. “Well then, you are not an atheist. You are an agnostic. That means that you will be forever searching for the truth.” It has been many, many decades. My mother is long gone, but here I am, still searching for the truth. But in all this time, I have come to acknowledge our creation and our creator, and for reasons for which you have no time, I call myself a Christian.
The fact that Ayn Rand was an atheist isn’t important to me. The old saying: “Out of the mud, grows the lotus.” … out of Ayn Rand’s writings, you can find a basket full of flowers. Here is one that I am now considering:
How shall we be charitable? Shall we give of our wealth or shall we give of ourselves? Those are two different things. The character Rearden manufactured a special kind of steel. That steel was his life’s passion – his heart and soul. Rearden steel was Rearden and that is what he tried to share with society. Society would have profited greatly by it, but society was only interested in the power and wealth that it represented. He was giving his heart and soul, but they were only interested in the buttons on his shirt- insulting, really.
...so what is more holy: the act of giving or the act of sharing? I haven’t got the answer to this question nailed down yet – I may never be able to.

[Marsha JJ]

I read Atlas Shrugged many years ago, and it has been on my list to re-read it again when I have the time. This was one of the most thought-provoking books I have read, because it indeed takes such an extreme viewpoint. It forces one to think.
To what extent should the most productive members of society be responsible to hold up the many who are not? It's a fair question to ask. While I believe in the value of giving, I also believe that those who work hard to achieve success absolutely are entitled to the wealth that they have earned by creating value for others. I'll be curious how I feel about the book the second time around.

[Gulam Mohamed]

I read this book in 1979 recommended to me by gentleman's who followed the Reformed Jewish faith. I enjoyed reading it and was stunned by the author's point of view. I was impressionable and used to be dazzled by Americana at the time. The book did not take into account the rest of humanity on the planet fairly, however. It represents a philosophy of convenience and takes a heartless point of view in places. All in all, an unrealistic point of view.

[iwaswondering04]

Hi again DennisK! I was glad to hear your thoughts. I had family drama as well that led to a similar conclusion. I decided that there must not be a God, or if there was, he must be an extremely hateful one. The idea of a Greek Zeus throwing lightening bolts, or, better yet, a crinkly old bearded dude slamming a gavel down proclaiming Guilty, was my impression at the time. It took a couple of years and drastic circumstances when I reached rock bottom for me to realize that all that had happened was benefitting me in extraordinary ways.

To some degree, I think that everyone is an agnostic. The person who has stopped searching for truth blindly holds on to the tiny bit he has and condemns all others, the person who ceases to ask questions is half dead.

Your question is a good one. I am not sure that I ever thought about there being a difference between giving and sharing. I can see the difference between giving of your self and giving out of your pocket. I think it depends on the circumstances. Most people will never spend ten never ending years creating one of the worlds greatest inventions. What they can do, is give the hungry man on the corner a sandwich. Or they can offer to help the little old lady mow her lawn. And to the person who is dying on the road, they aren't going to care if Rearden Metal is half the price, half the weight, and twice as durable as steel.

It might be worthwhile to mention that within the context of Judaism, it is more noble to give a quarter to three people a day, than to give a million dollars to one person in the whole of your life. They would also suggest that it's more noble to give to someone without them knowing who is giving them aid, and doing it in such a way that their dignity as a human being is not diminished.

We should help people as often as possible, in whatever means we have available, as the circumstance demands. All help is noble.

(PS. I had never heard the saying about the lotus out of the mud. I was only curious. Another author, Louis Lamour, once made the comment that the worth of a book lay not so much in what it said, but in what it makes you think. I have to agree. And I can see where the basket full of flowers can be harvested from Rand.)

[iwaswondering04]

I was questioning why it so necessary for Jesus to be crucified. How was that suppose to save the rest of us from our own sins? I was questioning what I believe to be the very foundation of our moral values. Why is sacrifice the ultimate expression of love?

Hi, it's me again. I still probably can't answer any of your questions, but did have another thought. A family member and I were talking recently, and he happens to be digging around in the science of quantum- ness, however that might best be phrased. And he said that within the context of the quantum- verse, we are all interconnected. So what we do to someone else, we do to ourselves. When we give to someone, we are in essence giving to ourselves. All things make a full circle. In the Bible, this concept is phrased as You will reap what you sow. In Sanskrit it is called Karma, which can actually be translated as Come- back. It's just something to think about.

[Gulam Mohamed]

@@iwaswondering04 I agree with you. I hardly remember anything that Rand said in Atlas Shrugged, now, as it was ages ago that I read it (1979/80). I have not learned enough in my years but I think we are all connected at some level. Some say, 'The Unified Field of All Possibilities'. Muslims, by the way, are taught that Jesus could not have been crucified because He was highly favoured. We all have to take responsibility for our actions, whatever faith or belief or unbelief system we espouse. What I remember in Atlas Shrugged is that the characters had become a part of society that had reached a steep level of hubris. Having been born and living in Africa I am thankful for my experience in America. It took me some time to differentiate between what I call, 'The Good American People (TGAP)' and 'The USA (meaning the State)' and 'The CIA', who are acting in the name of, and betraying, their own people (TGAP), or so it seems to me. I am open to being corrected. I am looking forward to reviewing more works by Americans and taking a 'multi-polar' point of view in my reviews. Wishing you all the best.