Do you think that the signs or "palza" that prevailed during Embon's birth affected him later in life?

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Re: Do you think that the signs or "palza" that prevailed during Embon's birth affected him later in life?

Post by Josephe-Anne »

The strange thing about Embon is that he was an ace student who ended up without any certificates to back it up. Because of this, it can be argued that he did not live up to his full potential.
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Post by lavkathleen »

Josephe-Anne wrote: 27 Jan 2021, 13:44 The strange thing about Embon is that he was an ace student who ended up without any certificates to back it up. Because of this, it can be argued that he did not live up to his full potential.
Because of the lack of certificates? Isn't that a little low? He was an exceptional student who was able to advance to higher levels despite his young age. He was an intellectual and compassionate person who joined the independence movement to fight for the freedom of his country. No certificate is enough to prove his potential.

(For the record, though, if there's anyone deserving of school certificates, it should be students like Embon who were able to advance that fast and early. Just because you "didn't finish" shouldn't mean that you don't get a certificate. They're advancing for a reason!)
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Post by lavkathleen »

Miraphery wrote: 25 Jan 2021, 08:11 Embon was not a total failure although I think that his belief in the palza affected his life. He was a prodigy in school and later became a freedom fighter. At some point, he began to believe that the signs were his fate.
Did he? He mentioned his mom and her belief in his palza to his friends once, but I can't remember a part where he seemed to believe in it, too. His decision to become a freedom fighter was a result of the influence of his studies abroad and the friends he met there, not his palza. I wouldn't say that this was a failure, either.
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Post by Josephe-Anne »

lavkathleen wrote: 29 Jan 2021, 04:11
Because of the lack of certificates? Isn't that a little low? He was an exceptional student who was able to advance to higher levels despite his young age. He was an intellectual and compassionate person who joined the independence movement to fight for the freedom of his country. No certificate is enough to prove his potential.

(For the record, though, if there's anyone deserving of school certificates, it should be students like Embon who were able to advance that fast and early. Just because you "didn't finish" shouldn't mean that you don't get a certificate. They're advancing for a reason!)
While I agree with your rationale, employers look at your resume and they won't know your backstory that you were an ace student without the certificates to back it up. Often, they don't even give you a chance to prove yourself without the certificates. And many people (in the general public) like to see that you have a degree to take you seriously. I'm not saying it's right or fair, but that's what I've observed - in my personal experience.
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Post by Ahbed Nadir »

Sou Hi wrote: 11 Jan 2021, 04:35 I think the omens are half-right. Embon had a pampered childhood and a successful school life. Even in Japan, he achieved quite a lot of knowledge and comrades. However, after the turning point where he was forced to go back to Korea, he lost his will and became a shell of himself. This was where the omen came true, as what he had after that was given to him and not things he obtained by his own hands. The author did a good job portraying this. In my opinion, whether Embon is an underachiever depends on himself. As long as he has a goal, he will have a productive life.
Yeah, I can get behind this. I think in this sort of situation, these omens were sort of self fulfilling. Embon believed wholly in these omens as did his mother and as such they effectively shaped the way he approached anything in life leading him to almost always fail. When he believed in himself and worked for his goal he found himself capable of quite a lot despite the so-called omens.
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Post by Ahbed Nadir »

In Korean culture, palza or omens are taken very seriously. As a result of his birth date, through no fault of his, Embon was apparently doomed to a life of mediocrity and failure. However some might stipulate that the only reason the palza had any apparent effect on Embon was because of the stigma of the omens and the surrounding belief in the infallibility of these omens. Supposing Embon had been raised surrounded by individuals who gave no credence to omens it is almost certain that he would have achieved quite a lot. So yes, in a way, the palza did shape Embon's life
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Post by Sou Hi »

Ahbed Nadir wrote: 29 Jan 2021, 15:32
Sou Hi wrote: 11 Jan 2021, 04:35 I think the omens are half-right. Embon had a pampered childhood and a successful school life. Even in Japan, he achieved quite a lot of knowledge and comrades. However, after the turning point where he was forced to go back to Korea, he lost his will and became a shell of himself. This was where the omen came true, as what he had after that was given to him and not things he obtained by his own hands. The author did a good job portraying this. In my opinion, whether Embon is an underachiever depends on himself. As long as he has a goal, he will have a productive life.
Yeah, I can get behind this. I think in this sort of situation, these omens were sort of self fulfilling. Embon believed wholly in these omens as did his mother and as such they effectively shaped the way he approached anything in life leading him to almost always fail. When he believed in himself and worked for his goal he found himself capable of quite a lot despite the so-called omens.
Yes, I believe the omens are like prejudges. If Embon succumbs to them, he will lose his spirit and become miserable as the omens predicted. But if he is able to forget them and listen to his heart, he will overcome the hardships and be successful. It's the mindset that will decide.
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Post by Harty Muli »

Annette M wrote: 16 Jan 2021, 13:55 I do not think it affected him, despite his struggles he came out alive and determined to continue with the fight.
This fact made me think perhaps the author has plans for a sequel. I couldn't help thinking there was more to Embon's story.
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Post by Harty Muli »

Devalsodha wrote: 16 Jan 2021, 14:17 Yes, in my opinion Embon's life is very much affected by the palza of his birth time. The author has done a great job to portray Embon's life and his underachievements.
I agree. I liked how the author used this fact and other aspects of Korean culture to illustrate Embon's destiny.
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Post by Harty Muli »

MsH2k wrote: 20 Jan 2021, 20:46 My son and I were born in the Year of the Rat. I remember my friends telling me that rats were survivors.

I am conflicted with the balance of destiny and free will. I do not perceive Embon as an underachiever—late bloomer, maybe—but not underachiever. He just had to find his passion. Although other people may be hurt by his decisions, he must define his success.
Certainly rats have some positive traits as you've rightly observed. Also sometimes I thought he was overwhelmed by the fact that he was a genius.
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Post by Ahbed Nadir »

Sou Hi wrote: 30 Jan 2021, 03:25
Ahbed Nadir wrote: 29 Jan 2021, 15:32
Sou Hi wrote: 11 Jan 2021, 04:35 I think the omens are half-right. Embon had a pampered childhood and a successful school life. Even in Japan, he achieved quite a lot of knowledge and comrades. However, after the turning point where he was forced to go back to Korea, he lost his will and became a shell of himself. This was where the omen came true, as what he had after that was given to him and not things he obtained by his own hands. The author did a good job portraying this. In my opinion, whether Embon is an underachiever depends on himself. As long as he has a goal, he will have a productive life.
Yeah, I can get behind this. I think in this sort of situation, these omens were sort of self fulfilling. Embon believed wholly in these omens as did his mother and as such they effectively shaped the way he approached anything in life leading him to almost always fail. When he believed in himself and worked for his goal he found himself capable of quite a lot despite the so-called omens.
Yes, I believe the omens are like prejudges. If Embon succumbs to them, he will lose his spirit and become miserable as the omens predicted. But if he is able to forget them and listen to his heart, he will overcome the hardships and be successful. It's the mindset that will decide.
You're very right. Its the mindset that will decide. I do hope the author writes a sequel showing Embon's continued growth.
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Post by Albaou Amira »

Growing up believing that you are doomed to fail can be cripling. Superstition held not only him back from his otherwise success but caused others to see and encourage his failure by making him feel and act like he already failed.
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Post by Sushan Ekanayake »

It is a belief system in Korean culture. The author has mentioned it to make the story more relatable and then she actually builds Embon's character to make that belief true. So she made a character with great potential but didn't reach his full potential
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Post by Sushan Ekanayake »

VernaVi wrote: 10 Jan 2021, 20:03 I feel that his being born under these signs did affect him. His elders were already programmed to see him as an underachiever and that colored his life from the time he was born. It is deep-rooted in their culture to follow the signs so closely.
I agree with that societal acceptance part. The society into which Embon was born, those signs meant a lot. So those signs saying that he will be an underachiever was heavily impacted into the minds of the elders. So, throughout his childhood he was seen as such and they did not even tried to change that fact, just because his fate was already decided by the signs that occurred at his birth
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Post by Brownbrit »

Wow! I totally forgot about this part of the book. The Author definitely did not harken back to this point. She needs to weave this in a bit more as a theme throughout the book.
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