Jesus was selfish?

Use this forum to discuss the December 2020 Book of the month, "Wilderness Cry: A Scientific and Philosophical Approach to Understanding God and the Universe" by Hilary L Hunt M.D.
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Praise GodWord
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Re: Jesus was selfish?

Post by Praise GodWord »

The author, Hunt, only gave his opinion. Which he's entitled to. That doesn't make his assertions accurate. Firstly, no smart man has ever done the miracles Jesus did without doing what Jesus said in his word. Secondly, it was later discovered that there was no trace of disvirginity in Mary when she conceived Jesus.
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Post by Ngozi Onyibor »

I don't agree with the author's views about the conception of Jesus. If human beings can figure out a way to artificially inseminate a woman, how much more an omniscient God. If Jesus was selfish, He wouldn't have given himself up as a sacrifice for the sins of others. I know that the Bible is ambiguous, but I don't think we can choose what aspects to believe and what not to believe. It's either you believe or you don't.
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Post by Chizioboli »

From my own understanding, no one can do what Jesus did merely from studying some scriptures and coming to certain "understandings. If it were so, anyone would have because many Christians have deep understanding of the scriptures even the devil does funny enough. However, only Jesus could achieve this feat because He was ordained and chosen to. The scriptures actually state He brought himself selfless to do that. Now speaking of selfless, let me talk about your second question.

If Jesus was selfish, He wouldn't lay down his life for mankind. It just doesn't make sense for a man to be selfish, yet do the most selfless act ever recorded on earth. He wouldn't even leave His Father's side at all. He knew what dying on the cross of Calvary enrolled, the risks, benefits and all that comes with it and yet choose to do it. Unless the author has another definition to selfishness that would cause him to term his act selfish, Jesus act of dying on the cross is the most selfless act ever talked of in history.
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Post by Miraphery »

The act of willingly sacrificing himself for others contradicts the selfishness Hunt accuses Jesus of. Jesus would have figured out the prophecies were fabricated since he was a prodigy. It took more than understanding the scriptures to do what he did.
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Post by Sue_neth_ak »

cd20 wrote: 26 Dec 2020, 14:51 I think this book was a book of contradictions. I felt that Hunt went on a rant about the Catholic church and this is what came of that. The Catholic Church is not the same as other churches, their belief system is different, so Hunt is inferring what he wants to about Jesus, without any real research to back up his claims. We have to be careful of people spouting truth, without any real evidence.
I agree with you. Initially the authir started out with his doubts and questions that he had. He then started pointing facts which didn't seem to have a legitimate source. Then eventually some of his facts started to contradict one another. Initially I had thought that it was a harmless attempt made by him to figure things out, but like you had said he is inferring what he simply wants about Jesus and the churches, due to the gaps in what he had found out.
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Post by Francis Aderogbin »

Veraok wrote: 05 Jan 2021, 00:28 I won't agree that Jesus died for the redemption of sinful men as a sinful man. God had always looked for sinless and spotless being to be sacrificed for men to live and I think it was only Jesus that could fit in.That is why he was referred to as the sacrificial Lamb in the Bible.
I perfectly agreed with you. How can a selfish man choose to sacrifice himself for humanity? The author needs to do more research to back up his claim.
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Post by TheMazeRunner »

Well, this is one of the things that made me mad a bit. A person who gives his life for others is selfish? No, he isn't. I think that the author is really harsh here.
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Post by Shieldmaiden88 »

To answer both of your questions at once, the author's perspective doesn't make any sense. No, a selfish person could never come to such a radical understanding of the Old Testament scriptures as we see in the teachings of the Sermon on the Mount. (called the Gospel of Jesus by the early believers) A selfish person could never lay his life down for others, let alone his enemies as Jesus did. More importantly, the proof of the resurrection is found in the martyrdom of 10 apostles and countless others who saw Him before and after the cross. Who would die for something they knew to be a fabrication?
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Post by tafta »

hlhunt33 wrote: 01 Jan 2021, 15:18 Confused? Please refer to my definition of selfishness which is, 'anything directed at self". All so-called sin comes under that giant umbrella of selfishness. Jesus was selfish in the sense that he required food, drink, clothing, shelter. He had to breath, sleep and eliminate---all activities directed at self. Extremes of selfishness have been decried by society and classified as sin. In order to get the Israelites attention, Moses had to re-present the Ten Commandments (his rules for societal order) to them as God's commands---it worked for a little while. Then the loopholes had to be filled in---they still are, even as I speak. I hope this helps. Hilary Hunt
I personally think we've taken to discussion the basic requirements of life such as breath, clothing, food, shelter as the selfishness of Jesus which is getting attributed to his sinfulness therefore he couldn't have been a worthy sacrifice. I believe then I the context of our new definition of selfishness that he was the least selfish being therefore qualify as a worthy sacrifice. There wouldn't be a Jesus to talk about without those 'selfish' acts, he'd have died at birth.
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Post by just_a_wormy »

Viczboy16 wrote: 31 Dec 2020, 06:25 I disagree with the author about Joseph being the biological father of Jesus and that Jesus was a child prodigy and the Bible had fabrications. If Jesus was just smart, he would have understood the scriptures were fabricated and would not give his life to mankind. If he was selfish, he wouldn’t give his life up for mankind but he was selfless and that was why he gave his life up.
Absolutely! I believe that too. How will a selfish person give up his own life? I totally disagree with the author.
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Post by Tangerinehippie1 »

Jesus was sent by God to set an example for us to be blameless so we can walk with God.
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Post by ElizaBeth Adams »

I don't believe Jesus was selfish. If he was sinful, his sacrifice would not be enough to cover the sins of humanity. If he wasn't who the Bible says he was: God in the flesh, born of a virgin, Messiah, Savior of the world, then he was a lunatic. C.S. Lewis said it best in his book Mere Christianity:

"You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God, or else a madman or something worse."
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Post by Unique Ego »

Kenesha L Fowler wrote: 24 Dec 2020, 16:33 In chapter 20, talking about Jesus, Hunt (the author) completely rejects the writings surrounding Jesus's genealogy, His conception and certain aspects of His life as told by the apostles; they are all fabrications, all part of the "Jesus Story." He doesn't accept "any of the so-called prophetic predictions in the Old Testament." He contends that the virgin birth is highly unlikely, and he proposes that Joseph was the natural father of Jesus. According to him, Jesus was a child prodigy, "in which case, He would have studied and understood the scriptures at a young age much better than the wisest old sages."

Um, the same scriptures with the incredible stories and so-called prophetic predictions??

So we have this completely human Jesus, whom Hunt also points out was selfish (and therefore sinful, because according to him, sin = selfishness, right?) So this human, sinful/selfish Jesus (who "knew a messiah was to come") came to the understanding that "His Spirit and the Father's Spirit were one," and that "He and His Father must be Perfect Love...He saw Himself as the Son of God, the Sacrificial Lamb who must pay the price of Perfect Love and Perfect Justice."

In chapter 21, Hunt states that it is his only faith that Jesus died for our salvation.

Having read all that, here's what I'm wondering:

1: Considering the author's notion of a completely human Jesus who was just really smart in his time, does it then mean that anyone could have done what He did, just by studying some scriptures and coming to certain "understandings"?

2. How much sense does it make that a selfish/sinful man died for mankind's salvation?
"How much sense does it make that a selfish/sinful man died for mankind's salvation?"

I was about to ask this same thing before I saw it on your comment. If anything, Jesus's life reeked of selflessness. I mean, that was his sole purpose of coming to Earth: to save the lost and dying. These are people who didn't even like him or believe in what he came to do, and yet, he died for them? Who goes as far as to die just to prove a point that he knows is false?
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Post by TempleOz123 »

Hunt clearly tries to balance religious beliefs with logic. Thing is, he falls short, because apart from what looks like a distinct lack of research, he claims Jesus is selfish, (which initially piqued my curiosity, because I like to hear people's take on faith) but fails to deliver on the reason he thinks so.

If Jesus was selfish, why would he give his life for the salvation of mankind? Doesn't that defeat the term?
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Post by Heidadela »

Every person is entitled to their opinion, be it religious or secular. I believe Hunt was just expressing his personal views. However, I disagree with his views because, as a Christian, I believe that there are some aspects surrounding Jesus birth, life and ministry that we may not understand (Deuteronomy 29:29 - The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may follow all the words of this law . These hidden things, we will understand at the end of the world.
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