Does the book convey that all biblical characters are myths?

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Maddie Atkinson
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Re: Does the book convey that all biblical characters are myths?

Post by Maddie Atkinson »

Ahbed Nadir wrote: 25 Dec 2020, 16:11 Honestly I appreciate the way you've responded. I myself haven't really done any research into this atopic so I can't particularly speak on it but I agree with you that it's possible that God created us by the big bang. It makes sense because in the bible they said God created adam and eve only in the garden. So how was it that when they left the garden there were already other countries or people's out there as evidenced by when Cain wandered the earth and met other people. So yes your point is valid.
If you ever have the time, or are just interested, I recommend looking at other theories that mix the creation story with scientific creation theories. Not necessarily to cause confusion or to try and prove or disprove your beliefs, just purely for the reason that it is fascinating! You might find it interesting. The Big Ban itself is interesting alone, so when mixed with religion, there are so many interesting theories!
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Post by cd20 »

This book does not in any way contend that all characters in the Bible are myths. The Bible is the most documented book in the world, to infer that it is made up of mythical people is ridiculous. I am sure some would believe that to be truth, it depends on how they view the Bible. I hold to the side that the Bible is the inspired word of God and the people and events actually did take place, they are not myths. But, everyone has an opinion, that is just mine.
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Post by Maddie Atkinson »

cd20 wrote: 26 Dec 2020, 14:46 This book does not in any way contend that all characters in the Bible are myths. The Bible is the most documented book in the world, to infer that it is made up of mythical people is ridiculous. I am sure some would believe that to be truth, it depends on how they view the Bible. I hold to the side that the Bible is the inspired word of God and the people and events actually did take place, they are not myths. But, everyone has an opinion, that is just mine.
I think it depends to be honest. In terms of New Testament, I would be inclined to agree with you as the people talked about in that are historically documented as real people. However, a lot of the Old Testament does not have any historical proof to back it up. Yes Jacob did exist, the Pharaoh did exist, they are historically documented, but there is no historical evidence for Adam and Eve, Cain and Abel, the whereabouts of the cities of Soddom and Gamorrah are disputed, the Tower of Babylon definitely didn't happen as the people of Babylon didn't even believe in God, so why would they build a tower to reach him? the list goes on. The Bible is inspired by the word of God, I agree, but God didn't say 'these people existed', God told us morals and things like that. The events in the Bible are not the word of God, but rather documented to try and prove God caused the events (if that makes sense?). I'm an ancient history student at uni, the human desire to try and rewrite history to fit beliefs fascinates me!
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Post by cd20 »

Maddie-We will again have to agree to disagree, we obviously sit on opposite sides of this, which is okay :) I have spent many years as a Christian, reading all I can get my hands on, and my Master's degree is in Religious Education. I do not believe that the Old Testament was just a set of morals, the Bible does say in the beginning God created...that included Adam and Eve, again, I believe that everything that happened in the Bible is true and real. I can't just pick and choose parts of it to be true, it's all or nothing. I choose all.
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Post by Maddie Atkinson »

cd20 wrote: 27 Dec 2020, 13:53 Maddie-We will again have to agree to disagree, we obviously sit on opposite sides of this, which is okay :) I have spent many years as a Christian, reading all I can get my hands on, and my Master's degree is in Religious Education. I do not believe that the Old Testament was just a set of morals, the Bible does say in the beginning God created...that included Adam and Eve, again, I believe that everything that happened in the Bible is true and real. I can't just pick and choose parts of it to be true, it's all or nothing. I choose all.
That's fair enough! I like talking to you, I think it's great to have these debates! It's interesting to see other people's opinions based, not just on background and religious upbringing, but on education too. Because you have a degree in religious education, you will know a lot about the teachings of the Bible and that's great. As I am doing my degree in ancient history, I know more about the historical background and basis of these beliefs. Take the story of the Tower of Babel again, for example. I don't think that could have happened because the people of Babylon believed in several different gods, not the one Christian God, so why would they build a tower to try and reach Him if they didn't believe in Him? The story was inspired by the ziggurat at the centre of the city of Babylon, but that was built in the 14th century BC and lasted to the 9th. Even Judaism wasn't a religion then, let alone Christianity. One singular god just wasn't believed in. So from a historical point of view, to me, that didn't happen and is just a moral story that warns people of why they shouldn't try and reach the same level of God, if that makes sense? I am not trying to offend you in any way, I just find it interesting how we can see a story from two different perspectives based on our backgrounds and education!
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Post by Victoria Copsey »

I think there is certainly a mix of characters that are real and other that are perhaps not. I believe some people such as Adam and Eve may be more representational or a single example. Overall we can't know everything and much is up for interpretation. In reality whether the characters are real or not is not important, it is the stories and lessons we must pay attention to.
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Post by cd20 »

That's fair enough! I like talking to you, I think it's great to have these debates! It's interesting to see other people's opinions based, not just on background and religious upbringing, but on education too. Because you have a degree in religious education, you will know a lot about the teachings of the Bible and that's great. As I am doing my degree in ancient history, I know more about the historical background and basis of these beliefs. Take the story of the Tower of Babel again, for example. I don't think that could have happened because the people of Babylon believed in several different gods, not the one Christian God, so why would they build a tower to try and reach Him if they didn't believe in Him? The story was inspired by the ziggurat at the centre of the city of Babylon, but that was built in the 14th century BC and lasted to the 9th. Even Judaism wasn't a religion then, let alone Christianity. One singular god just wasn't believed in. So from a historical point of view, to me, that didn't happen and is just a moral story that warns people of why they shouldn't try and reach the same level of God, if that makes sense? I am not trying to offend you in any way, I just find it interesting how we can see a story from two different perspectives based on our backgrounds and education!
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LOL! I agree, I like hearing your perspectives because they do challenge me. I thought it was funny, that I have started enjoying these mini-debates, especially since I am not an argumentative person by nature, but I have enjoyed this conversations. I will be going back to see what my history on the Old Testament books have to say about the Tower of Babel, because now I am curious! I also think whether they believed in the Christian God or other gods, maybe they thought they all lived in the sky?
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Post by Maddie Atkinson »

cd20 wrote: 28 Dec 2020, 15:33 That's fair enough! I like talking to you, I think it's great to have these debates! It's interesting to see other people's opinions based, not just on background and religious upbringing, but on education too. Because you have a degree in religious education, you will know a lot about the teachings of the Bible and that's great. As I am doing my degree in ancient history, I know more about the historical background and basis of these beliefs. Take the story of the Tower of Babel again, for example. I don't think that could have happened because the people of Babylon believed in several different gods, not the one Christian God, so why would they build a tower to try and reach Him if they didn't believe in Him? The story was inspired by the ziggurat at the centre of the city of Babylon, but that was built in the 14th century BC and lasted to the 9th. Even Judaism wasn't a religion then, let alone Christianity. One singular god just wasn't believed in. So from a historical point of view, to me, that didn't happen and is just a moral story that warns people of why they shouldn't try and reach the same level of God, if that makes sense? I am not trying to offend you in any way, I just find it interesting how we can see a story from two different perspectives based on our backgrounds and education!
LOL! I agree, I like hearing your perspectives because they do challenge me. I thought it was funny, that I have started enjoying these mini-debates, especially since I am not an argumentative person by nature, but I have enjoyed this conversations. I will be going back to see what my history on the Old Testament books have to say about the Tower of Babel, because now I am curious! I also think whether they believed in the Christian God or other gods, maybe they thought they all lived in the sky?
[/quote]

Debates are always interesting, especially when they challenge each person without causing harm or hurt. It's so interesting to hear different perspectives without having an angry argument (which happens a lot on Facebook to those who are close minded, and clearly that is neither of us!). I think they did believe they had gods in the sky and in some sort of underworld (for example Innana, or Ishtar, was the goddess of heaven and Ereshkigal was the goddess of the underworld), just like the Greeks did. The name of the ziggurat was Etemenanki, which means "temple of the foundation of heaven and earth", which could be where the story in the Bible derived its meaning from? I am by no means an expert on this, but it was included in one of my uni modules last year, so I got to do some research into it. I think it was built as an offering or way of worship to the gods, a way of connecting them to heaven and earth, like relics do for Christians. I think the Sumerians did have a myth very similar to that of the Old Testament. Whichever way, I think it is just a very interesting piece of history and I love how it has inspired so many cultures!
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Post by Daisy Deeh »

Hold on,if we evolved from apes and that our first parents eve and adam are myths then i don't see any point of procreation, i mean new beings could have just evolved. there's a big difference between bible and science
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Post by Maddie Atkinson »

Daisy Deeh wrote: 29 Dec 2020, 08:04 Hold on,if we evolved from apes and that our first parents eve and adam are myths then i don't see any point of procreation, i mean new beings could have just evolved. there's a big difference between bible and science
You need procreation to the new beings to evolve. A variation of a gene becomes more dominant in a species and as procreation happens that gene becomes the most common among a species and that gene is what causes variations in a species which is what then leads to evolution. It's a survival of the fittest, or natural selection, as the new species is usually more developed and able to survive than their ancestors which means that the original species cannot compete or adapt to keep up, which means they eventually die out. For example, Neanderthals couldn't compete with Homosapians so they eventually died out. Like any species, human or otherwise, we need procreation to keep generations going, new beings don't just appear out of thin air all brand new and different to monkeys, that's just now how it works. In my opinion, Adam and Eve are myths that have a moral to the story, as it would have been impossible for them to just appear out of nowhere, especially if Christians are right and the Earth is only 10,000 years old. It is my belief that God set off the Big Bang which put the creation in motion, He is the greatest scientist there ever will be, and I believe He had the plan for evolution. For me, it is just not possible for Adam and Eve to exist, there is too much evidence to suggest otherwise.
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Post by Odette Chace »

I don't think the author meant for people to dismiss the stories and characters in the Bible outright, but rather to think critically about the information presented and decide how to interpret it for ourselves, rather than accept the church's dogmatic interpretations of the text. If people don't question the church's teachings and motives, then it's like we are living in the past when only select members of the church had copies of the Bible and everyone else just had to take for granted that what they heard on the Sabbath was the truth.
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Post by Lucille27 »

I think if you are a non-believer, you could say so. It is the mythology from the judeo christian worldview. However, regarding your question I do not believe they are the same as the Easter bunny or even Santa Claus. These two last characters are more legends and traditional figures, created for specific rituals and who had had a different approach. They are even part of pop culture. Nonetheless, we could see the whole first part of the Bible as the foundational myths from a judeo-christian worldview, and thus, these stories can be considered myths when you are not part of the religion. It is just as Greek mythology or the Nordic one, or even the figures from Hinduism.
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Post by Maddie Atkinson »

Lucille27 wrote: 30 Dec 2020, 18:40 I think if you are a non-believer, you could say so. It is the mythology from the judeo christian worldview. However, regarding your question I do not believe they are the same as the Easter bunny or even Santa Claus. These two last characters are more legends and traditional figures, created for specific rituals and who had had a different approach. They are even part of pop culture. Nonetheless, we could see the whole first part of the Bible as the foundational myths from a judeo-christian worldview, and thus, these stories can be considered myths when you are not part of the religion. It is just as Greek mythology or the Nordic one, or even the figures from Hinduism.
I agree with you in some sense, but figures in Greek mythology (besides the Gods) were not always necessarily believed to be real. They were a part of mythology and the Greeks knew that. They were stories that were there to explain things that the Greeks did not then have the science to explain, and they were also morals stories for the Greeks to follow as examples. It was a part of their religion, just like characters like Adam and Eve are. I am a Christian, but personally I believe a lot of Biblical characters, especially in the Old Testament, are nothing but that, characters. Mythical stories that hep to guide us and teach us morals. A lot of stories in the Bible are even based on Greek mythology, or Sumerian mythology, etc. which leads me to think that they are mythical.
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Post by hlhunt33 »

Probably, some characters of the bible were real. However, I show that the powers and activities ascribed to them by the biblical authors were necessarily myths (fairy tales)---most were based on mythology and the pseudoscience of astrology. There was little, if any, scientific knowledge. They believed the earth was flat, and that the celestial bodies were largely in control of what went on. The essence of their God was not defined, but rather a humanistic emotional nature was assigned to him, albeit more powerful. Given such fallacious premises, their conclusions, necessarily, were wrong. Hilary L Hunt
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Post by Bisqwik »

I see it as just a simple acknowledgement that these mythos existed before Christianity, just like the myth of Christ. These patterns repeat throughout all the older civilizations to the point that it is a tongue in cheek treatment. The professed belief in Christ is a bit of a jog in my opinion. Knowing these storylines come from earlier times makes it seem unlikely he wouldn't know about the two or three demigods or deities that came before Jesus that were near perfect matches for the same myth. But, beliefs can vary. Maybe it's not that the characters are myths, but that some of the stories are just that. Stories.
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