Doing the most?

Use this forum to discuss the June 2020 Book of the month, "Killing Abel" by Michael Tieman.
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Re: Doing the most?

Post by Sanju Lali »

God wanted to give freedom to man and see on what path man will naturally tend to move.
life is only knowing the unknown, we can do this by reading books easily- Online book club is a great place for this. This is what I believe.
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Post by LiLj »

I think that the other did a bit much, there was just a lot of parts of the book where it didn’t even look close to the Bible stories that they were supposed to be of.
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Post by LiLj »

I have to say that I don't think that this book would lead non-Christians astray since this is a work of fiction and any stories here should be taken with a heavy pinch of salt.
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Post by Teddyquam »

There are many works of fiction that draw inspiration from the bible. I cannot list the number of movies and books that form the scriptures into another story.We as Christians should acknowledge that creators have the freedom to use their creativity as they please, even if it offends a group of people. This is no longer a time where the church has massive influence over art. People using their imagination does not affect my faith, and so let them feel free!
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Post by Melisa Jane »

I agree with you. The author put more emphasis on men. He, through this, portrayed God as a person. Someone who make mistakes, he worried and correct his mistakes. Some Christians, especially the "holier than thou" type, will feel attacked. However, I don't think non religious people, or people of other faiths will be mislead. This is because the author made it clear that this is a work of fiction. They'll understand that.
Insofar as the word 'should' even has meaning, then we must say that the past is exactly as it should be, everything that happened should have happened, and everything that should happen will happen
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Post by Melisa Jane »

tieman55 wrote: 17 Jun 2020, 16:53
Adanna Inya wrote: 17 Jun 2020, 15:38 This book is a thoroughly enjoyable read if you ask me. If you're a Christian, then you're conversant with the biblical versions of the different stories recorded in the book. You can easily separate fact from fiction.

However, in this book, the Godhead who is regarded as the all knowing and omnipotent was said to be limited, get worried, second guess, and have doubts. Nephilim came in from nowhere to help Noah build the ark. And the human Adam was even contemplating on the best retribution for the murder of Abel.

Did the author do too much with this in the name of fiction? Do you think that the author blasphemed? Will this book lead non Christians who don't know better astray?
A great question that must be considered but, I think your question was lacking in one sense, You should have added this . . . "Will this book possibly lead Christians to rethink their theology? "

Is God offended by anything that was said or inferred by me in Killing Abel? I say no. (And I pray no, just in case)

Will non-Christian's somehow think less of God as they read Killing Abel? I say no and I can't find anything in Killing Abel that doesn't portray God as anything other than a loving Father.

Will both Christian and non-Christian's think about God and the obstacles He faced when He decided to be come a parent? And in doing so rethink their theology? I hope so.

I am guessing the biggest concern are the dialog's concerning the God Head where the three natures of God are discussing an issue. God the Father or Father time. God the Son, or the Life and God the Holy Spirit, which records the past for the Godhead, and informs the Others to His view of what may transpire in the future.

I believe that God, thinks, listens and learns from His creation. Now that will be blasphemy to many. But please consider the very first action that God took with Adam before you cast me aside as a heretic.

God has Adam name the Animals. Why would that be the very first thing God have had Adam to do? I propose that Adam naming the animals was not arbitrary, it was mandatory. God gave Adam free will and with that came eternal life and with that the ability to love, but God for now had withheld procreation from Adam as there was no women. But there were the animals.

Adam is naked, as he names the animals . . . and the bible tells us when a mate wasn't found God created Eve. We would not be here if Adam had become aroused when naming the animals.

I say the above without any desire to offend but many will be offended. But the Bible states the above, about as clear as it states anything. It is early in Geneses, and therefore it is foundational to Christianity yet no one knows it, so I risk saying it just so one person might hear it and think anew.

God did not know until He knew what Adam's reaction would be in naming the animals. . .

The bottom line comes down this one question. I hope if you chose to respond to this post you will answer this simple question. "If" God wanted to, does God have the ability to create Adam in a way that He would not for sure what Adam would do in naming the animals? Yes or No.

My answer is that God can do things to limit Himself, and becoming a Father did just that in a big big way!
I honestly don't understand your angle. If I'm reading this post right, you suggest that somehow God expected Adam to be aroused while naming the animals? In your view, the naming of the animals was primarily to determine whether Adam will mate with them?
Insofar as the word 'should' even has meaning, then we must say that the past is exactly as it should be, everything that happened should have happened, and everything that should happen will happen
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Post by Melisa Jane »

Adanna Inya wrote: 17 Jun 2020, 17:17
tieman55 wrote: 17 Jun 2020, 16:53
Adanna Inya wrote: 17 Jun 2020, 15:38 This book is a thoroughly enjoyable read if you ask me. If you're a Christian, then you're conversant with the biblical versions of the different stories recorded in the book. You can easily separate fact from fiction.

However, in this book, the Godhead who is regarded as the all knowing and omnipotent was said to be limited, get worried, second guess, and have doubts. Nephilim came in from nowhere to help Noah build the ark. And the human Adam was even contemplating on the best retribution for the murder of Abel.

Did the author do too much with this in the name of fiction? Do you think that the author blasphemed? Will this book lead non Christians who don't know better astray?
A great question that must be considered but, I think your question was lacking in one sense, You should have added this . . . "Will this book possibly lead Christians to rethink their theology? "

Is God offended by anything that was said or inferred by me in Killing Abel? I say no. (And I pray no, just in case)

Will non-Christian's somehow think less of God as they read Killing Abel? I say no and I can't find anything in Killing Abel that doesn't portray God as anything other than a loving Father.

Will both Christian and non-Christian's think about God and the obstacles He faced when He decided to be come a parent? And in doing so rethink their theology? I hope so.

I am guessing the biggest concern are the dialog's concerning the God Head where the three natures of God are discussing an issue. God the Father or Father time. God the Son, or the Life and God the Holy Spirit, which records the past for the Godhead, and informs the Others to His view of what may transpire in the future.

I believe that God, thinks, listens and learns from His creation. Now that will be blasphemy to many. But please consider the very first action that God took with Adam before you cast me aside as a heretic.

God has Adam name the Animals. Why would that be the very first thing God have had Adam to do? I propose that Adam naming the animals was not arbitrary, it was mandatory. God gave Adam free will and with that came eternal life and with that the ability to love, but God for now had withheld procreation from Adam as there was no women. But there were the animals.

Adam is naked, as he names the animals . . . and the bible tells us when a mate wasn't found God created Eve. We would not be here if Adam had become aroused when naming the animals.

I say the above without any desire to offend but many will be offended. But the Bible states the above, about as clear as it states anything. It is early in Geneses, and therefore it is foundational to Christianity yet no one knows it, so I risk saying it just so one person might hear it and think anew.

God did not know until He knew what Adam's reaction would be in naming the animals. . .

The bottom line comes down this one question. I hope if you chose to respond to this post you will answer this simple question. "If" God wanted to, does God have the ability to create Adam in a way that He would not for sure what Adam would do in naming the animals? Yes or No.

My answer is that God can do things to limit Himself, and becoming a Father did just that in a big big way!
The Bible clearly stated that he gave God gave Adam dominion over the animals. So you're right about that part. I also don't think that Adam would have been aroused by animals because he was even unaware of his nude state, same as Eve, until they ate of the forbidden tree.

After eating of the tree, their eyes opened, and this is when "I think" that they became aware of each other (sexually). So, saying that God didn't know until he knew of Adam's reaction towards the animals doesn't sit well with me. God was very aware of the naïveté of Adam and probably wanted to keep it that way, hence the warning about the tree of knowledge (I assume).

I think you should check and edit your final question, as I don't understand it. I think you're missing some words.
I also don't agree with the opinion that God wanted to see if Adam mates with the animals. In fact, the Bible only tells us that Adam was lonely hence God made a companion for him. No mention of mating or anything of that sort.
Insofar as the word 'should' even has meaning, then we must say that the past is exactly as it should be, everything that happened should have happened, and everything that should happen will happen
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Post by Melisa Jane »

tieman55 wrote: 17 Jun 2020, 19:18 Yes, the question is missing a word, the word "know"

"If" God wanted to, does God have the ability to create Adam in a way that He would not know for sure what Adam would do in naming the animals? Yes or No.
I think I'm missing something. How do you know that God didn't know what Adam would do while naming the animals? How did you associate mating with naming of animals? I don't get it.
Insofar as the word 'should' even has meaning, then we must say that the past is exactly as it should be, everything that happened should have happened, and everything that should happen will happen
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Post by Melisa Jane »

Adanna Inya wrote: 17 Jun 2020, 19:31
tieman55 wrote: 17 Jun 2020, 19:18 Yes, the question is missing a word, the word "know"

"If" God wanted to, does God have the ability to create Adam in a way that He would not know for sure what Adam would do in naming the animals? Yes or No.
No. I don't think so. As much as God is the most powerful, I doubt that he will or can deliberately bring forth a creation whose thoughts he doesn't know. That would be a contradiction to everything that the Bible says about God, from him being all knowing to all seeing and knowing us before we were formed.

In the end, this is just my submission. Nobody knows the mind of God.
The author seems to argue that God expected Adam to mate with the animals. I don't agree with these allegations. Here, he quoted the Bible out of context.
Insofar as the word 'should' even has meaning, then we must say that the past is exactly as it should be, everything that happened should have happened, and everything that should happen will happen
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Post by Melisa Jane »

Mutai_ wrote: 18 Jun 2020, 11:47 I think the first step is for the reader appreciating that this is a fictional book based on the author's imagination. To non-believers, it may create conflicting thoughts especially if they are not well Cognizant about the Bible. This is because the Bible only provides the necessary information leaving out some other aspects that would have made it very bulk, which is unnecessary
I agree with you that appreciating that this is a fictional book is the first step. Except for the occasions quoting of the Bible, I think those who know absolutely nothing about the original stories will enjoy it the most. The only reason why Christians may not enjoy it as much is because some may think it's blasphemy.
Insofar as the word 'should' even has meaning, then we must say that the past is exactly as it should be, everything that happened should have happened, and everything that should happen will happen
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Post by Melisa Jane »

Claude Belemu wrote: 18 Jun 2020, 16:05
Adanna Inya wrote: 17 Jun 2020, 15:38 This book is a thoroughly enjoyable read if you ask me. If you're a Christian, then you're conversant with the biblical versions of the different stories recorded in the book. You can easily separate fact from fiction.

However, in this book, the Godhead who is regarded as the all knowing and omnipotent was said to be limited, get worried, second guess, and have doubts. Nephilim came in from nowhere to help Noah build the ark. And the human Adam was even contemplating on the best retribution for the murder of Abel.

Did the author do too much with this in the name of fiction? Do you think that the author blasphemed? Will this book lead non Christians who don't know better astray?
Well, even in real life, God does choose to limit his hand in situations or in the affairs of man. I think this is what the author refers to. This willful retreat by God allowing the free-will of human beings to play out. The bible does speak about God saying he regretted making Man. Is that the second-guessing you speak of? Regarding the Nephilim, they didn't come out of nowhere. They were assigned to help in that task by Meth and Lamech.

I do not think that the author did 'too much' in the name of fiction. No, he did not blaspheme as I felt he was still very respectful to the real biblical text. I think this would be a good book for 'backsliders'.
This is what I thought initially. But after reading one of the author's replies, I think he meant literal limitation. Not knowing what to do. He gave an example of God observing whether or not Adam would mate with the animals.
Insofar as the word 'should' even has meaning, then we must say that the past is exactly as it should be, everything that happened should have happened, and everything that should happen will happen
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Post by Melisa Jane »

Pretty giftee wrote: 18 Jun 2020, 18:41 I think the most amazing part of this book for me, is that the addition of fiction to this Bible stories, this alone triggers the urge to search the Bible in other to separate fiction from fact and this can be helpful to Christians.

The author did not blaspheme and I doubt if this book is capable of leading Christians who don't know better astray.
I also don't see how this book could mislead Christians. However, I believe that the author read the Bible completely out of context. His replies in this forum makes me more suspicious.
Insofar as the word 'should' even has meaning, then we must say that the past is exactly as it should be, everything that happened should have happened, and everything that should happen will happen
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Post by Topsey »

I think that this is clearly a work of fiction. The author is in no way trying to claim that these retellings are facts therefore I don’t think it’s blasphemy. If anything this is positive work, almost evangelical, because it causes the readers to question what’s true and maybe lead them to research on their own. Since this book may even make people consider God as a reality, I believe it is in fact serving God as a work of fiction.
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Post by Melisa Jane »

Topsey wrote: 27 Jun 2020, 14:52 I think that this is clearly a work of fiction. The author is in no way trying to claim that these retellings are facts therefore I don’t think it’s blasphemy. If anything this is positive work, almost evangelical, because it causes the readers to question what’s true and maybe lead them to research on their own. Since this book may even make people consider God as a reality, I believe it is in fact serving God as a work of fiction.
I agree with you. The author has made it clear that this is purely a work of fiction. I, therefore, don't think there's any blasphemy here. However, reading the author's replies in this forum gives me an impression that he reads the Bible out of context.
Insofar as the word 'should' even has meaning, then we must say that the past is exactly as it should be, everything that happened should have happened, and everything that should happen will happen
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Post by Duncann679 »

Christians should read this book with the Bible at hand to avoid confusion. This book is fictional to a large extent.
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