Caining a Son

Use this forum to discuss the June 2020 Book of the month, "Killing Abel" by Michael Tieman.
Alice Festo
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Re: Caining a Son

Post by Alice Festo »

There are communities that believe a child will take after the person he is named. To some extent this has proved to be true but on a Biblical perspective the name and date isn't an issue, the choices you make creates your personality.
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Post by Mrunalpatki »

I do believe that the explanations given in the book for Cain turning out to be "Cain" are not sufficient and definitely not convincing.
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Post by Bison_ »

I believe that it was the circumstances surrounding his conception and birth. Having known why he was named Cain, he might have felt unwanted and probably illegitimate. I, therefore, think these circumstances might have made him rebellious
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Post by wendilou49 »

Joseph_ngaruiya wrote: 09 Jun 2020, 14:09
wendilou49 wrote: 08 Jun 2020, 11:44 I don't believe his name or the fact that he was born as the "unlucky" number of children in his family. I believe that Cain chose to follow his own will rather than listen to God's voice. It's the same today, I can have 3 or 4 children and raise them all the same...and yet one may chose to rebel while another chooses to follow God's word. Believing in circumstances is like believing in old wives' tales. The number 13 is no more unlucky than any other.
Your comment drives me to the philosophical question of whether fate is real. Numbers have had a deeper meaning since time immemorial: it would be wrong to point out that they don't influence our habits. A good example is 'lucky numbers' which so many people assume are lucky. My opinion is that Cain might have been influenced by the comments and behaviors of his family towards him. Unlike in the contemporary world, back then, culture was followed to the letter.
Abel and Cain were both raised by parents who knew God in a way none of us will until we meet him face to face someday. To believe in numerology or any other type of "science" above what God said was right or wrong, in my mind, was and is to decide that what you think or believe is more important that what God says. We have God's words in the Bible, but Adam and Eve had them directly from Him...what better source is there? I don't believe in luck.
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Post by wendilou49 »

Kirsi_78 wrote: 08 Jun 2020, 13:54
wendilou49 wrote: 08 Jun 2020, 11:44 I don't believe his name or the fact that he was born as the "unlucky" number of children in his family. I believe that Cain chose to follow his own will rather than listen to God's voice. It's the same today, I can have 3 or 4 children and raise them all the same...and yet one may chose to rebel while another chooses to follow God's word. Believing in circumstances is like believing in old wives' tales. The number 13 is no more unlucky than any other.
Well said! I could not agree more. However, what I never understood is why one chooses to rebel and the another one doesn't... :eusa-think: but I do believe number 13 is not the reason.
I believe that answer is that God gives each of us a free will and that some of us just have to try it our own way and find out that our way is usually not the best way. Some will return, others will not.
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Post by BookBoyP »

I'll definitely say that it was due to everyone's expectation of him due to the circumstances surrounding his birth, but he should have done better regardless.
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Post by Brenda Creech »

Kirsi_78 wrote: 08 Jun 2020, 13:54
wendilou49 wrote: 08 Jun 2020, 11:44 I don't believe his name or the fact that he was born as the "unlucky" number of children in his family. I believe that Cain chose to follow his own will rather than listen to God's voice. It's the same today, I can have 3 or 4 children and raise them all the same...and yet one may chose to rebel while another chooses to follow God's word. Believing in circumstances is like believing in old wives' tales. The number 13 is no more unlucky than any other.
Well said! I could not agree more. However, what I never understood is why one chooses to rebel and the another one doesn't... :eusa-think: but I do believe number 13 is not the reason.
I agree wholeheartedly! I have two children and they were both raised the same way, but both took totally opposite paths as adults. The paths they chose were "their" decisions. I believe the same was true with Cain. It had nothing to do with the number thirteen.
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Post by Jeff101 »

yeah I don't think that he is rebelling only because he was the 13th, it just doesn't make much sense, rebellion is a choice.
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Post by Becccccca+98 »

Technically, you could use the nature vs nurture argument and the self-fulfilling prophecy. It could be possible that because the circumstances of Cain's death was known by everyone at the time, they may have treated him differently. Maybe not consciously, but in a sub-conscious way they disciplined him differently from their other children. Thus he he grew up to be the way he was. For example, if you believe a child is going to cause trouble, then you will treat him differently because you are expecting him to behave a certain way. Thus he grows to meet your expectations.
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Post by Becccccca+98 »

Kelyn wrote: 08 Jun 2020, 16:18 Ir's not whether or not he believed the number of his birth was unlucky. Everyone around him, including his family, believed it and therefore treated him differently...and probably not in a kind way. I believe babies are born as blank slates. Both nature and nurture affect how they develop. In that environment what child wouldn't grow up resentful of being singled out and 'spat on' (figuratively) because of something he had no control over?
Exactly! it can kind of also be linked to the self-fulfilling prophecy as well. Since they treated him differently, he behaved as such.
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Post by Sheetal_22564 »

I don't think the nature of the birth was of much effective importance but the mentality of the thirteenth day born and people's expectations from the eldest of the male of the house. I guess he's demeanor and point of view would have been much different and much better if he wouldn't have been named so.
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Post by Magnify3 »

wendilou49 wrote: 08 Jun 2020, 11:44 I don't believe his name or the fact that he was born as the "unlucky" number of children in his family. I believe that Cain chose to follow his own will rather than listen to God's voice. It's the same today, I can have 3 or 4 children and raise them all the same...and yet one may chose to rebel while another chooses to follow God's word. Believing in circumstances is like believing in old wives' tales. The number 13 is no more unlucky than any other.
So true. We all make choices and Cain made his own choices. To say it was as a result of the day he was born is not right. God created day and night and said that they were good!
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Post by wendilou49 »

Magnify3 wrote: 23 Jun 2020, 03:02
wendilou49 wrote: 08 Jun 2020, 11:44 I don't believe his name or the fact that he was born as the "unlucky" number of children in his family. I believe that Cain chose to follow his own will rather than listen to God's voice. It's the same today, I can have 3 or 4 children and raise them all the same...and yet one may chose to rebel while another chooses to follow God's word. Believing in circumstances is like believing in old wives' tales. The number 13 is no more unlucky than any other.
So true. We all make choices and Cain made his own choices. To say it was as a result of the day he was born is not right. God created day and night and said that they were good!
Yes!
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Post by Becccccca+98 »

jdsatosk wrote: 11 Jun 2020, 01:31
Joseph_ngaruiya wrote: 09 Jun 2020, 14:12
Kelyn wrote: 08 Jun 2020, 16:18 Ir's not whether or not he believed the number of his birth was unlucky. Everyone around him, including his family, believed it and therefore treated him differently...and probably not in a kind way. I believe babies are born as blank slates. Both nature and nurture affect how they develop. In that environment what child wouldn't grow up resentful of being singled out and 'spat on' (figuratively) because of something he had no control over?
Even a cub becomes bold by following the lions that kill and roar in the jungle. Our environment and exposure have a lot to do with who we grow up to be.
I agree with these assessments. Often, other’s expectations and treatment have a marked difference in the attitudes and choices we make. Certainly we have control over what we do, but the influences of those around us cannot be discounted. Perhaps Cain may have been a difficult child no matter what, but the additional assumption and watchfulness of others could have easily been the extra push toward that expected outcome that he eventually fulfilled.
I agree completely. He may have been a difficult child by nature, but the environment he lived in may have added another dynamic that resulted in how he turned out. We've all seen the video's of cats and dogs growing up together, Dogs will behave like cats if that is the environment they grow up in. In that same way, if Cain grew up in an environment in which he was expected to be bad, he would have grown up to be bad. Abel and Cain had a fairly good relationship because Abel never treated him as if he was predestined to be bad. Cain didn't have a good relationship with the other members of his family because he knew that they saw him as a bad seed, and Abel as the good one. Overall, he may have been a difficult child by nature, but his environment didn't do him any favours either. We can't discredit that his environment didn't affect him at all and that it was purely his doing because he was evil. It's just a combination of self-fulfilling prophecy, and the Nature v.s Nurture argument.
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Post by Githadun »

I don't think Cain's name impacted on his behavior. He chose to live his life the way he did.
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