Clone Duplicate to fake death

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Realsy
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Clone Duplicate to fake death

Post by Realsy »

Mason had a hastily-made clone made to fake Kalin’s death. We find out later that the body was instantly cremated so they couldn’t exhume it to prove whether it was the clone or the human Kalin. So my question is, do you think a clone could really be used to fake someone’s death? The clone appeared to look just like Kalin down to a mole. Dennison said the rush job they did would only last a few hours. If that’s true, a proper autopsy should have been able to discern that it wasn’t the real Kalin right? I guess what I’m asking is the DNA they used from the pen to make the clone, how much info gets stored? If Kalin say had a broken bone that didn’t set quite right, would the clone have that too? Kinda weird question but I was just curious.

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B Creech
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Post by B Creech »

Well, that's a good question! Calling on my past nursing knowledge I would say no, the clone wouldn't have the problem with a bone that didn't set. The DNA shouldn't affect that, just the looks, blood type, etc. Any physical anomalies involving the skeletal system I would guess would not be the same. Having said that, I am just guessing! As a nurse, I didn't work with clones or DNA so don't quote me! If anyone else knows for sure I would love to see what they have to say. I don't mind being corrected! :D
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Post by IchbineinBerliner »

B. Creech is right. No, the clone would not have the broken bone. It is only the DNA that is an exact copy. Also, if Kalin Taylor had any dental work done, such as teeth filled or pulled, the clone would also not have identical dental records. The authorities could just say that DNA matching is the definitive test, and then no one would ask these inconvenient questions.

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Post by SurroundedByBooks »

IchbineinBerliner wrote:
07 Apr 2020, 16:14
B. Creech is right. No, the clone would not have the broken bone. It is only the DNA that is an exact copy. Also, if Kalin Taylor had any dental work done, such as teeth filled or pulled, the clone would also not have identical dental records. The authorities could just say that DNA matching is the definitive test, and then no one would ask these inconvenient questions.
And they were clever that the cause of death was obvious so no one would bother with an autopsy.
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Post by Nerea »

Realsy wrote:
07 Apr 2020, 13:58
Mason had a hastily-made clone made to fake Kalin’s death. We find out later that the body was instantly cremated so they couldn’t exhume it to prove whether it was the clone or the human Kalin. So my question is, do you think a clone could really be used to fake someone’s death? The clone appeared to look just like Kalin down to a mole. Dennison said the rush job they did would only last a few hours. If that’s true, a proper autopsy should have been able to discern that it wasn’t the real Kalin right? I guess what I’m asking is the DNA they used from the pen to make the clone, how much info gets stored? If Kalin say had a broken bone that didn’t set quite right, would the clone have that too? Kinda weird question but I was just curious.
In sci-fi and fantasy world, Yes. Why? Because things that cannot happen in real life are made to seem real in this world. So the clone would present all of Kalin's traits. (That's what I think).
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Post by leximutia »

Any scars or acquired impacts from healed injuries (such as improperly set bones) would not have shown in Kalin's clone. The body was cremated likely due to suggestion or influence from GenTech in order to avoid having any inconsistencies discovered.

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Post by tanner87cbs »

To me this was a plot hole. If we take the facts of how quickly the body would start breaking down. I don’t think there was enough time to get it off the space station then to the planet. Let alone stage the death and account for the time for the body to be found and taken in.

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Post by zhenya_reads »

That does sound like a plothole! I would agree with everything everyone else said. Or maybe Mason had enough power to silence everyone? But then again - it was specifically stated that on the planet, that Kalin was from, they cared a lot about their people and would probably have looked into it.

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Post by JudasFm »

tanner87cbs wrote:
11 Apr 2020, 01:16
To me this was a plot hole. If we take the facts of how quickly the body would start breaking down. I don’t think there was enough time to get it off the space station then to the planet. Let alone stage the death and account for the time for the body to be found and taken in.
zhenya_reads wrote:
11 Apr 2020, 07:58
That does sound like a plothole! I would agree with everything everyone else said. Or maybe Mason had enough power to silence everyone? But then again - it was specifically stated that on the planet, that Kalin was from, they cared a lot about their people and would probably have looked into it.
Okay, I'm sneaking in to close this plot hole ;) Just the plot hole; I'm not butting into the discussion itself.

It's established very early on (P19-20) that the lab is only a part of the station, and that many college students - Kalin included - often go to the public area to shop and watch movies (Like most space stations, Project Tau – or whatever its official designation was – had numerous entertainment facilities, and Kalin knew he wasn't the only student who went to the thirty-screen cinema there from time to time.) so we know that it doesn't take long for people to go from the planet to the space station.

We also know from Dennison that the clone will die naturally in a very short space of time. ("A rush job like this will be dead in a few hours, but to be honest, I don't see that posing much of a problem.") However, just because it's going to die doesn't mean it's going to decay on the spot; a clone that's been dead for two days is going to present identical stages of decay and rigor mortis to a natural human that's been dead for two days.

An autopsy would definitely reveal something amiss, which is why Mason gives the order to shoot the clone; if the cause of death is clearly determined, there's no need for an autopsy and nobody would notice anything strange. Nor would there be any external signs of organ failure, since the clone was killed before any of the organs had time to fail. The same goes for an investigation: the people on Kalin's planet would have looked into it, but being several billion kilometers away means there isn't a great deal they can realistically do. (Not giving anything away here, but this also forms a minor plot point for the sequel :P )

We know from the ending that GenTech has its own individual shuttle bay, so once the clone is dead, transporting it off the space station isn't going to be an issue at all; it's not like they have to smuggle it out via public transport ;) All they have to do is shoot the clone, take its body down to the planet after dark, and dump it somewhere.

Total time required (including travel time there and back): not officially stated, but taking all the above into account, we can call it about 90 minutes :)

Since the body would decay at a normal rate, it doesn't particularly matter to Mason when it's found, as he knows there'll be no autopsy and therefore nothing to link it to GenTech. He has no power or authority outside of his own lab (and, some would argue, not a great deal within it either ;) )

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Post by tanner87cbs »

Jude, thank you so much for stepping in to clarify! That helps piece it together. I am 60% through the second book now. I have to say, I liked the first book a lot. However, the second one I find more enjoyable!

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Post by Jocelyn Eastman »

Realsy wrote:
07 Apr 2020, 13:58
Mason had a hastily-made clone made to fake Kalin’s death. We find out later that the body was instantly cremated so they couldn’t exhume it to prove whether it was the clone or the human Kalin. So my question is, do you think a clone could really be used to fake someone’s death? The clone appeared to look just like Kalin down to a mole. Dennison said the rush job they did would only last a few hours. If that’s true, a proper autopsy should have been able to discern that it wasn’t the real Kalin right? I guess what I’m asking is the DNA they used from the pen to make the clone, how much info gets stored? If Kalin say had a broken bone that didn’t set quite right, would the clone have that too? Kinda weird question but I was just curious.
I don’t think so. I don’t think a clone would start at adulthood so quickly. But this is the future so I guess by then they figured out how to do that quickly.

If that’s the case though, why make women go through pregnancies anymore? They could just have wombs for mothers and basically automatically grow babies for couples? Ok I know that went off on a tangent, but it just popped into my mind. If the technology is there to clone, surely it’s there to gestate a baby.

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Post by raindropreader »

I have to say I love the way you think and that you are very smart to think about the bone setting question. It’s a very scary thing to think that if cloning ever did become widespread how it would be extremely difficult to know who was truly murdered or lost. We wouldn’t know if it was the real human or not.

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Post by Samisah »

I am not a doctor not a scientist but I think DNA settings shouldn't really affect physical structures like bones and joints in the body.
But this is a novel. The rules can't be the same. Otherwise they wouldn't have hurriedly cremated the corpse.

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Post by djr6090 »

Nerea wrote:
08 Apr 2020, 00:05
Realsy wrote:
07 Apr 2020, 13:58
Mason had a hastily-made clone made to fake Kalin’s death. We find out later that the body was instantly cremated so they couldn’t exhume it to prove whether it was the clone or the human Kalin. So my question is, do you think a clone could really be used to fake someone’s death? The clone appeared to look just like Kalin down to a mole. Dennison said the rush job they did would only last a few hours. If that’s true, a proper autopsy should have been able to discern that it wasn’t the real Kalin right? I guess what I’m asking is the DNA they used from the pen to make the clone, how much info gets stored? If Kalin say had a broken bone that didn’t set quite right, would the clone have that too? Kinda weird question but I was just curious.
In sci-fi and fantasy world, Yes. Why? Because things that cannot happen in real life are made to seem real in this world. So the clone would present all of Kalin's traits. (That's what I think).
Oh my yes. Anything is possible in the world of make believe!

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Post by Ediomis_Enwongo01 »

I may not be in the medical field not be a scientific expert but I think DNA remains the acid test between the real human and the cloned. Be it as it may, the scientific world, in a novel setting ,may fix things in perspective to look real.

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