Team Rachel or team main protagonist?

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prowlingivy
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Re: Team Rachel or team main protagonist?

Post by prowlingivy »

I am sympathetic to the protagonist he was obviously stressed out with his responsibilities. But considering Rachel, she was a stay at home mom, a role with its own share of responsibilities. I believe they were both frustrated with their daily lives and since they lacked any type of decent communication it boiled-down to resentment in the end. This is seen through their efforts at maintaining the happy family image to the public but engage in domestic squabbles when at home. In summary, I am not for or against either.
They both contributed to the ultimate fall out and the ultimate victims were their kids.
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Post by sevillagirl18 »

I honestly think it takes two to undo a relationship. However, I will say that Rachel was incredibly controlling, thinking especially about the time the protagonist went on a long bike ride and Rachel acted as though the sky was falling. I also think that she made no effort to really connect with the protagonist after the children were born. While it's totally understanding to be focused on your children, I think that if you're not willing to put in the time and work on your relationship with your spouse, you really don't value it, I think that's why I really side with the protagonist on this one.
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Post by Melissa Breen »

While I'm sure Rachel wasn't perfect I'm definitely Team Rachel, I felt like the main character didn't treat her very well and she seemed to be doing the majority of the parenting without the same breaks that he received. The character didn't seem too interested in his marriage or even his kids so I don't blame her for becoming a little bit neurotic by the end of it!
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Post by Erin Painter Baker »

Can I be on Team Divorce and Future Happiness for both?
I think it's hard to draw any real conclusions about their relationship because we are only getting one side of the story. But the truth is, people deserve to be happy. And people deserve second chances. And the kids deserve to live in a house where both of their parents aren't miserable.
So, I was glad they finally got divorced. That gave them both a chance to move forward into something better.
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Post by Sheila_Jay »

timur777 wrote: 05 Jan 2020, 22:49 It is hard to understand Rachel's motives. Her actions seem so confusing at times. Definitely not a team Rachel
Don't you think that element of her character makes her stand out from the rest?
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Post by NetMassimo »

esp1975 wrote: 19 Jan 2020, 17:02 Can I be on Team Divorce and Future Happiness for both?
I think it's hard to draw any real conclusions about their relationship because we are only getting one side of the story. But the truth is, people deserve to be happy. And people deserve second chances. And the kids deserve to live in a house where both of their parents aren't miserable.
So, I was glad they finally got divorced. That gave them both a chance to move forward into something better.
Yes, a divorce without drama, with the awareness that a marriage makes no sense anymore, is better than going on with a bond that just causes happiness in everybody.
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Post by Julius_ »

Cotwani wrote: 03 Jan 2020, 08:17 I know poor communication is a verified relationship killer. All the same, I think Rachel's attitude played a big role in the final fall-out. I mean, I found her unsupportive (heck, she was opposed to man mission from day 1), selfish (wouldn't go to work), bitter and a loner (she didn't reach out to the "wives committee).

On the other hand, maybe its just that the main protagonist's character (whose name I don't remember seeing) was better fleshed out. We didn't get to hear her side of the story.

What do you opine?
These were exactly my thoughts about Rachel. She was insubordinate and unlikable. But I think the author succeeded in using her in plot development and to bring forth lessons , especially that some people, especially the family members, may not support your course.
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Post by Julius_ »

prowlingivy wrote: 16 Jan 2020, 15:20 I am sympathetic to the protagonist he was obviously stressed out with his responsibilities. But considering Rachel, she was a stay at home mom, a role with its own share of responsibilities. I believe they were both frustrated with their daily lives and since they lacked any type of decent communication it boiled-down to resentment in the end. This is seen through their efforts at maintaining the happy family image to the public but engage in domestic squabbles when at home. In summary, I am not for or against either.
They both contributed to the ultimate fall out and the ultimate victims were their kids.
I agree with you that even Rachel had her share of responsibility and stress. The same way the protagonist had. But I think she was a little more impatient and ever complaining and opposing. But all in all, they both contributed to the family breakdown.
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Post by Julius_ »

Sheila_Jay wrote: 20 Jan 2020, 00:52
timur777 wrote: 05 Jan 2020, 22:49 It is hard to understand Rachel's motives. Her actions seem so confusing at times. Definitely not a team Rachel
Don't you think that element of her character makes her stand out from the rest?
Indeed! She was a unique character, and I'm sure she made this book as realistic as possible. I think the author used her to bring out a theme of family relation, as well as adding up to the plot development.
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Post by Julius_ »

esp1975 wrote: 19 Jan 2020, 17:02 Can I be on Team Divorce and Future Happiness for both?
I think it's hard to draw any real conclusions about their relationship because we are only getting one side of the story. But the truth is, people deserve to be happy. And people deserve second chances. And the kids deserve to live in a house where both of their parents aren't miserable.
So, I was glad they finally got divorced. That gave them both a chance to move forward into something better.
I agree with you on that, but what of the kids? I believe divorce affects the kids more than it affect the parties. I'm also glad that they divorced. It's also unfair to expose the kids to such a severe family misunderstanding.
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Post by Julius_ »

Melissa Breen wrote: 18 Jan 2020, 14:58 While I'm sure Rachel wasn't perfect I'm definitely Team Rachel, I felt like the main character didn't treat her very well and she seemed to be doing the majority of the parenting without the same breaks that he received. The character didn't seem too interested in his marriage or even his kids so I don't blame her for becoming a little bit neurotic by the end of it!
Although I'm team the protagonist, I agree with you on his failure to cater for his family and have a keen interest in his children. Although I don't really agree to Rachel's actions. Some were a bit too much.
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Post by Julius_ »

sevillagirl18 wrote: 16 Jan 2020, 21:41 I honestly think it takes two to undo a relationship. However, I will say that Rachel was incredibly controlling, thinking especially about the time the protagonist went on a long bike ride and Rachel acted as though the sky was falling. I also think that she made no effort to really connect with the protagonist after the children were born. While it's totally understanding to be focused on your children, I think that if you're not willing to put in the time and work on your relationship with your spouse, you really don't value it, I think that's why I really side with the protagonist on this one.
Yeah, this is why I insist that Rachel's dramas were (,most of them) unnecessary. A wise woman would work on solving their misunderstandings instead of all the dramas Rachel showed.
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Post by Julius_ »

kdstrack wrote: 07 Jan 2020, 21:36 I found myself siding with Rachel. Since the story was presented from the husband's viewpoint, the reader only gets one side of the story. The men realized that they needed time to get away and unwind but didn't empathize that their wives might enjoy the same type of getaway. This is just so typical of why marriages fail. "All for me and none for thee."
I agree that the story was a bit biased, considering that it was narrated in the protagonist's point of view, but we can't completely dismiss his feelings. Take, for example, the behavior of Rachel after the bike ride. I find absolutely no justification for some, if not most, of Rachel's behavior.
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Post by Julius_ »

Vivian Paschal wrote: 09 Jan 2020, 10:32
Laura Lee wrote: 03 Jan 2020, 20:12 It's a good question. I agree that Rachel came across as unsympathetic, but she was clearly unhappy about something. I could really see both sides. The author was super-stressed out, clearly. He was burning the candle at both ends. At the same time, if he never enabled his wife to have time off, I can see how she'd begin to resent that. Stay-at-home moms work hard, too, just in a different way. It can be very exhausting constantly being the caretaker of the kids and never getting a break.

My ex used to take time off for long man-weekends. I didn't mind. I was supportive of that. But then when I needed a break from five kids, the last two barely 12 months apart, he refused to help make that happen. It's not why we got divorced, but his selfishness was.
This, I can understand. Perhaps if we were let into her mind as much as we were let into the protagonist's, we would understand where she was coming from. It's easy to see a person as selfish if we don't get their own full picture and easy to see someone as a victim of another's selfishness when we see their single story.
I agree that the author should have brought out a bit of Rachel's side of the story, for us to make informed judgement. Thought, from what I've read, she was a little too mean.
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Post by Julius_ »

NetMassimo wrote: 09 Jan 2020, 11:22 We read about her from the narrator's point of view, and we can't be sure that he's a reliable narrator. That said, both of them seem to me to have some fault. If husband and wife are properly committed to their relationship, they should communicate much better than the narrator and Rachel and invest on their marriage supporting each other.
I agree with you that it is the responsibility of all the patners to ensure that their relationship works, but if we are to take the narrator's views af facts, since they're the only ones presented in the book, then Rachel was a little bit of a nuisance.
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