What's you opinion on the experience of ingesting of a plant concoction in the Amazon?

Use this forum to discuss the March 2019 Book of the month, "The Unbound Soul: A Visionary Guide to Spiritual Transformation and Enlightenment" by Richard L. Haight
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Abacus
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Re: What's you opinion on the experience of ingesting of a plant concoction in the Amazon?

Post by Abacus »

If drinking such a concoction is part of your culture, then it may be a reasonable thing to do. For me, I would not drink that concoction or take any unprescribed drug.
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Post by Acwoolet »

I’ve never tried ingesting plants like this before so I can’t say for certain if it worked the way the author wanted it to. But many cultures have done similar things and have found results. Even if it were just by placebo effect, it seems like they had gotten something out of it.
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Post by NicholsC97 »

I've never personally tried anything that impaired my judgment or thinking but I do know of some plants that do have hallucinogen properties. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if there is a plant that could be used to communicate with a higher power. I, personally, wouldn't have done it but it worked well for him in the end and that's what matters for the book.
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Post by Emily Guerra »

I did consider it would be placebo effect since his reaction began too soon according to the people around. He was already predisposed since he saw that he was receiving a bit more than the rest.

I cannot speak for experience though. I’m not saying there isn’t a chance it was a true spiritual experience with a desired outcome. I’m just more inclined to the placebo effect theory.
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Emily Guerra
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Post by Emily Guerra »

mmm17 wrote: 26 Mar 2019, 17:55
Drmplant wrote: 17 Mar 2019, 18:59 I believe the plant concoction is a strong hallucinogenic. I believe that he saw what he was concentrating on prior to taking it. I don't think it was a placebo effect, I believe he was truly high. I just think it was more of a self fulfilling prophecy. He believed he would so he did.
I feel the same way. I think the concoction has actual chemical effects, but that alone might not be enough. He is a special person who believed he could have a spiritual experience, and so he did.
There is also the possibility this concoction might have triggered his subconscious desires and in a way, maybe impulse them into that experience. That’s what certain drugs do, isn’t it? And since the brain is such a powerful organ, I think it might be possible.
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Post by Emily Guerra »

Dusamae wrote: 23 Mar 2019, 20:47 I thought it was incredibly careless to ingest anything from someone you don't know. I don't know if it that was the cause of the vision or if emptying his stomach being weak caused the vision.
I agree. I don’t think he really thought it through. Even if it’s part of their culture, they might be used to it, but being a stranger to that drink? (And on an empty stomach) It might have been a combination of all those things.
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Post by Emily Guerra »

briellejee wrote: 07 Mar 2019, 22:20 I think it's a placebo effect - which is powerful. Even in medical research, placebo effects could go a long way of a patient's health. The author having knowledge that such concoction can help him led him to believe that it has an effect on him. Having a preconceived idea can really affect how you see things. Such faith can truly move mountains.
I totally agree. Positive or negative, placebo effect is real. I think if he’d received the drink and someone said it was some local fruit juice or tea with no hallucinating effects whatsoever, the story would be totally different.
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Post by Hayley2-0 »

I think It had everything to do with what happened at the ceremony. It was bold of him to take that concoction though.
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Post by C-Extra22 »

I think ingesting a plant concoction and then seeing a vision invalidates whatever vision that was seen by the author especially in terms of the SUPERNATURAL aspect of the vision.
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Post by Wilkister94 »

I feel so unsettled when I remember Richard's experience of a vision after taking the plant concoction. One would think that he was hallucinating thus questioning the validity of his vision.
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Post by angiejack456 »

abbiejoice wrote: 07 Mar 2019, 23:51 I feel uncomfortable whenever I remember the author's experience of a vision after ingesting a plant concoction. This opens the possibility of a hallucination and thus, questions the validity of his vision.
I agree. I don't believe this is the way that God speaks us. It makes me doubt the source of his vision.
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Post by EvaDar »

Plant medicine has been used for millennia by believers of almost every major religious and spiritual tradition. My understanding is that the hallucinogenic affects have the potential to expand our ability to achieve certain levels of spiritual growth. I did wonder about the speed of the reaction in the book and that maybe a placebo affect could have been in play.
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Post by Brendan Donaghy »

Aldous Huxley wrote a book in the 1950s called 'The Doors of Perception' in which he recounted his own attempts to have a visionary experience using mescaline. Many other writers like Jack Kerouac, had done similar things before that. Music groups like the Rolling Stones and The Beatles experimented with mind-altering drugs in the sixties. I don't think, therefore, that ingesting some sort of plant in the Amazon and writing about the effects is necessarily a spiritual act.
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Post by Storm+ »

Because I've been exposed previously to the idea of ingesting plant concoctions as a way to achieve spiritual awakening, I wasn't too surprised that the author chose to do so. While I would probably never follow in his footsteps, the fact that it is an important part of a variety of cultures kept me from immediately condemning or invalidating the practice altogether. Regardless of whether the effect of this concoction on the author was the result of his own mind or his body's chemical reaction to the substance, it cannot be denied that it did play some part in the visions he received, and, thus, his spiritual journey.
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Post by Townsend2316 »

Everyone reacts differently to medicines, chemicals, etc. I had an experience in college (of course), where my friends were smoking the happy green stuff and then I tried it. They were all in a state of bliss listening to music and saying they could see the musical notes flowing through the air. I sat there and watched them and took care of them the rest of the night because it had no effect on me whatsoever. I didn't react or process it the same way they did. I have a God given high tolerance to alcohol so I'm used to not having the same experience as everyone else.

My Mom was a nurse and worked in the ER, she explained something about the way alcohol affects people that I always keep in mind. Whatever mood you are in when you start drinking is the mood that will be greatly amplified when you're drunk. It works the same way for expectations. If you go to the bar expecting to get drunk and dance on the bar, you're most likely to get drunk and dance on the bar.

So with all that in mind, he very well could've had a unique experience because of his body chemistry or went into the experience with expectations that manifested. Having an expectation is very similar to a placebo. I can take a pain pill for a broken leg and expect to have some relief and be sleepy while another person takes it and expects to be high as a kite and it becomes true because it's a mind game. The drug does have a small euphoric effect on most people but that's it. Some people have extremely low tolerances for drugs. That could also have been a factor for him.

Bottom line, in my opinion he was looking for a spiritual experience when he tried the concoction. Whether the concoction was strong enough to induce spiritual experiences for him is not known, the important part is that he had one. Whether the concoction was real or a placebo ultimately doesn't matter.
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