Did the book accurately portray the Celts?

Use this forum to discuss the September Book of the Month "Apollo's Raven" by Linnea Tanner.
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AliceofX
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Did the book accurately portray the Celts?

Post by AliceofX »

I don’t really know that much about the Ancient Celts so I’m wondering if
someone more knowledgeable could offer their opinion. Did the book seem historically accurate to you? Well, as much as a fantasy book can be.
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Post by gali »

As far as I can tell, it seemed historically accurate. The author presented the Roman's mindset and policy perfectly. I am not so sure about the portrayal of the Celts, though. Their culture was well described, but some point bugged me.

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I found it odd that two of the queen's daughters were from her lover, and that the king knew about it and accepted it just like that. One maybe, but not two, especially when the second one was born a few years after the marriage.
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Post by CommMayo »

gali wrote: 01 Sep 2018, 00:13 As far as I can tell, it seemed historically accurate. The author presented the Roman's mindset and policy perfectly. I am not so sure about the portrayal of the Celts, though. Their culture was well described, but some point bugged me.

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I found it odd that two of the queen's daughters were from her lover, and that the king knew about it and accepted it just like that. One maybe, but not two, especially when the second one was born a few years after the marriage.
I thought it odd at first, but I think the author explains it away when she introduces the curse written on the dagger foretelling his downfall at the hands of one of his children.
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Post by gali »

CommMayo wrote: 01 Sep 2018, 11:39
gali wrote: 01 Sep 2018, 00:13 As far as I can tell, it seemed historically accurate. The author presented the Roman's mindset and policy perfectly. I am not so sure about the portrayal of the Celts, though. Their culture was well described, but some point bugged me.

Spoiler
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I found it odd that two of the queen's daughters were from her lover, and that the king knew about it and accepted it just like that. One maybe, but not two, especially when the second one was born a few years after the marriage.
I thought it odd at first, but I think the author explains it away when she introduces the curse written on the dagger foretelling his downfall at the hands of one of his children.
Yes, I know, but I still found it unbelievable.
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Post by CommMayo »

gali wrote: 01 Sep 2018, 12:55
CommMayo wrote: 01 Sep 2018, 11:39
gali wrote: 01 Sep 2018, 00:13 As far as I can tell, it seemed historically accurate. The author presented the Roman's mindset and policy perfectly. I am not so sure about the portrayal of the Celts, though. Their culture was well described, but some point bugged me.

Spoiler
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I found it odd that two of the queen's daughters were from her lover, and that the king knew about it and accepted it just like that. One maybe, but not two, especially when the second one was born a few years after the marriage.
I thought it odd at first, but I think the author explains it away when she introduces the curse written on the dagger foretelling his downfall at the hands of one of his children.
Yes, I know, but I still found it unbelievable.
Kind of reminds me of part of the storyline in Outlander...
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Post by Emi_Review »

The only reference I have is from the little I learnt about Boudica on my old school trips to Colchester. She was the leader of the Celtic Iceni tribe that led an uprising against occupying forces of the Roman army in Britain and was pretty fierce. I can see some resemblance in the story. I'd say to look up the history of Boudica and other Celtic tribes to find out if you agree with the portrayal in the book.
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Post by Kgaelsdottir »

The Celtic/Druidic spirituality, even coming from the review (I still have yet to complete the book) is a bit over the top, but as this is considered "Historical Fantasy"...I suppose it's forgivable!!!

My ancestry is Norse-Gaels, and I'm a practicing Spakona, so I can tell you that the Druidic nuances here are more out of Britannia (the TV Series, if anyone has seen it) than reality. But again, being "fantasy"...I forgive it. ;)
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Post by Lil Reads »

One thing to remember about Celtic history is that the Romans wrote extensively on them with a clear bias and political aim. To the Romans, many Celtic customs seemed odd. For example, Celtic women did have a more important role both inside the family and in politics than Roman women. Archaeologists have noted that Celtic images and figurines of their deities show a distinct divide into pre-Roman and post-Roman influence. Prior to Roman interaction, male and female deities were usually depicted as being of similar height and with equivalent power; post Roman, the female deities are depicted as smaller and subservient.

For a more specific example, Boudicca was written about by two main Roman historians, both after her death. Both write about her as a very physically intimidating figure and describe how brutally she attacked Roman settlements, graphically describing what the soldiers did to the Roman women and children. She even gets a grand speech before her final battle, almost like a Shakespearean soliloquy. By portraying her this way, the Romans emphasize how terrifying they perceived the Celts and made themselves look better since they took on Boudicca and won.

So in short, most of our perceptions about Celts are filtered through Roman perspectives and we are still learning more about Celtic civilization.
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Post by Don Pwai »

Of course the book cannot capture their entire history. But, I think yhe author did a good work in unravelling a piece of their history.
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Post by CommMayo »

Don Pwai wrote: 02 Sep 2018, 00:43 Of course the book cannot capture their entire history. But, I think yhe author did a good work in unravelling a piece of their history.
Agreed. She really included a lot of interesting tidbits about life and fashions. I like how she had Marcellus remark on the fact that the warriors shaved their bodies much like the Romans did. I also liked all of the descriptions of the tattoos and dyed hair.
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Post by TessaC »

It reminds me a bit if the portrayal of the Celts in the movies "Centurian" and " The Eagle" both great movies about Romans and Celts. My favorite is "King Arthur" from 2004. All have wild painted tribes and Romans fighting them. No shape shifters, though
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Post by CommMayo »

TessaC wrote: 02 Sep 2018, 18:49 It reminds me a bit if the portrayal of the Celts in the movies "Centurian" and " The Eagle" both great movies about Romans and Celts. My favorite is "King Arthur" from 2004. All have wild painted tribes and Romans fighting them. No shape shifters, though
Haha, good point about the shapeshifters! I'll have to check out those movies. Sounds like they got the tribal aspect correct.
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Post by Kibet Hillary »

gali wrote: 01 Sep 2018, 00:13 As far as I can tell, it seemed historically accurate. The author presented the Roman's mindset and policy perfectly. I am not so sure about the portrayal of the Celts, though. Their culture was well described, but some point bugged me.

Spoiler
--
--
--
--
--
--
--
--
--
I found it odd that two of the queen's daughters were from her lover, and that the king knew about it and accepted it just like that. One maybe, but not two, especially when the second one was born a few years after the marriage.
What? Have not read the entire book but this would sound odd to anyone out here. It does not make much sense, or is this love? :D
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Post by Kibet Hillary »

Lil Reads wrote: 01 Sep 2018, 22:59 One thing to remember about Celtic history is that the Romans wrote extensively on them with a clear bias and political aim. To the Romans, many Celtic customs seemed odd. For example, Celtic women did have a more important role both inside the family and in politics than Roman women. Archaeologists have noted that Celtic images and figurines of their deities show a distinct divide into pre-Roman and post-Roman influence. Prior to Roman interaction, male and female deities were usually depicted as being of similar height and with equivalent power; post Roman, the female deities are depicted as smaller and subservient.

For a more specific example, Boudicca was written about by two main Roman historians, both after her death. Both write about her as a very physically intimidating figure and describe how brutally she attacked Roman settlements, graphically describing what the soldiers did to the Roman women and children. She even gets a grand speech before her final battle, almost like a Shakespearean soliloquy. By portraying her this way, the Romans emphasize how terrifying they perceived the Celts and made themselves look better since they took on Boudicca and won.

So in short, most of our perceptions about Celts are filtered through Roman perspectives and we are still learning more about Celtic civilization.
Wow, good research here. It is, therefore, almost obvious that the book depiction of the Celtics is almost true.
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Post by Kibet Hillary »

I was wondering about this, especially how the Celtics treated women and was a bit unsure if this was true but the pieces of evidence being presented here will almost lead to the same conclusion drawn from the story. I think some aspects are true.
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